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Rib cage help

Discussion in 'Skulls and Skeletons' started by ams5213, Sep 1, 2009.

  1. ams5213

    ams5213 New Member

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    I'm new to the whole skeletonizing thing and Was wondering if anyone had and clues or ideas on what I could use to degrease a ribcage and keep all the cartilage in tact? My goal is to mount a few animals for educational purposes and would love it if the cartilage is still attached to the ribs.

    Also another question is what exactly is "BO"? I did a search on it and 144 pages came up where it detected every single word that has a bo in it.

    Any incite is greatly appreciated.
     
  2. BO stands for Baquacil Oxidizer, its a pool/spa treatment thats used instead of chlorine( its 27% hyrdogen peroxide ). As for the ribcage, couldnt help ya.
     

  3. Sea Wolf

    Sea Wolf Well-Known Member

    The cartilage should not be greasy but you did not say what type of critter you are working with. If it's a very small animal, if you are careful, you can keep the cartilage intact. It will usually dry distorted though. In most cases, you rebuild the cartilage with wire and silicone to match what was there.
     
  4. ams5213

    ams5213 New Member

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    Thanks for the BO answer. and right now I have multiple skulls being macerated including foxes and beavers. I am cleaning the whole skeleton of a red tailed hawk and a screech owl by hand. but I have other animals in line too. I have a huge tiger, an otter, cerval, lemur, and a lot more.

    I am just looking for some important pointers that I should keep in mind as well as what to do with the cartilage of the ribs and possibly keeping the ligaments in tact if it is even possible.
     
  5. Um, arent all birds of prey illegal to possess?
     
  6. ams5213

    ams5213 New Member

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    They are if you dont have a permit... have all the paper work need to work on them. it was a pain in the ass but I have them.
     
  7. Lucky.
     
  8. ams5213

    ams5213 New Member

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    ya. they're really interesting. I need to see if while I'm skinning it, if I could leave the long wing feathers attached for display.
     
  9. Or if your Native American.
     
  10. ams5213

    ams5213 New Member

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    Nice. But unfortunately I'm not even close to being Native American. So a permit is needed.
     
  11. Sea Wolf

    Sea Wolf Well-Known Member

    Ligament mounts are common with small animals and you might pull it off with a bird. The only way to do this is with beetles. If you are macerating the bones it is already too late.

    Out of curiosity, do you work for a museum or a school?
     
  12. wbd

    wbd Member

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    UK
    On the birds skeletons... the ribcage of the bird does not have a rib and ribcartilage. The ribcage is made by 2 ribs (one that attaches to the vertebrae, and one that attaches to the sternum, the other ends of the ribs articulate with eachother. Check google for some images on birds skeletons. So for birds you do not have to worry about cartilage.
    In small mammals you can preserve the cartilage by degreasing in aceton. I have no experience with preserving rib cartilage in larger mammals so I can't help you there. I make artificial cartilage by rebuilding the ribcage with clay.
     
  13. ams5213

    ams5213 New Member

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    Thanks on the info wbd. I will definitely keep that in mind.

    And sea Wolf, I am actually a biology student and doing all of this as an independent studies course. Therefor I needed to find a lot of this information out myself. and everyone has been a great help so far and i appreciate it muchly.
     
  14. Sea Wolf

    Sea Wolf Well-Known Member

    You have some good specimens to work with. Unfortunately, if you are in the US, the tiger and the hawk and owl you will not be allowed to keep, even though you prepared them. .. Possibly the tiger, but not the birds. You will have to donate them to the school for them to keep when you are done. Lucky enough that you may get to keep the tiger though. :)
     
  15. ams5213

    ams5213 New Member

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    It would be awesome to keep whatever I ca, but it really doesnt matter to me. its a learning process and I know that most of what I do will go towards other anatomy classes and whatnot. but its good gun. I began the hawk today and got most of it done. i need to skin out the head and one of the wings. i also have to find the bone in the eye. I had no idea that there were bones in bird eyes...
     
  16. PA

    PA Well-Known Member

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    I am curious what college you are attending and if they have a dermestid colony available. If not I would be willing to send you a good sized starter colony which will make your work multiple times easier. There actually are multiple bones within the eyes of birds. The Scleral ring is a series of bones that interlink in a ring surrounding the iris. If you macerate the ring you will end up with 10-18 individual bones depending on the species of bird. The other small single bone inside the bird eye is the Os opticus that supports the eye where the optic nerve exists and then goes into the brain.
     
  17. Sea Wolf

    Sea Wolf Well-Known Member

    I did not know about the Os opticus but the Scleral eye ring is something you do not want to put back together. TINY tiny curved bones and they all fit together one way only. Use beetles and you will recover the eye ring intact.

    This one is damaged but is a good example of one. It is about the diameter of a quarter.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  18. ams5213

    ams5213 New Member

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    wow that's awesome. I am attending Penn State University at the Altoona campus. I know that they do not a have a dermestid colony at the campus. Thanks for offering to send me a colony I actually know how that process works with the beetles but unfortunately I don't think the professor monitoring my process wants me to use beetles. but I will run it by him when I meet with him tomorrow.

    And unfortunately it is my professor who wants me to find the Os opticus but the Scleral eye ring in the birds. I'm not macerating the skull of the bird, I am doing that by hand. Its going to be pretty gruesome trying to find those bones considering the last time the birds were worked on in may they were not refrozen, so the rotted a little.. ( well more than a little) and the guts were basically one big pile of mush. good thing I have a strong stomach.

    I did take some really cool pictures once I put the feet into my dawn/water solution for decreasing.. once I figure how to put them on here I probably will do that.

    Thanks again for all the help. :)
     
  19. PA

    PA Well-Known Member

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    I'm about 2 hours west of you at the Carnegie Museum on Natural History in Pittsburgh. There is a certain amount of information you can gather by trying other methods of skeletal preparation, but if you become adept at running a dermestid colony there is no better method for producing articulated skeletons of all vertebrates. I know of one mammalian anatomist at your Campus and that may be your adviser. I have a degree more or less in mammals but have been operating a dermestid colony for 28 years here for birds and herps, with a few mammals tossed in. Prior to that I ran colonies for primarily mammals in graduate school and the preceding 15 years or so a mixture of probably eight different techniques. I can pop some dermestids in the mail with no problem.
     
  20. ams5213

    ams5213 New Member

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    PA, I find your post kinda hilarious. nothing personal really. I am actually from the Pittsburgh area and The carnegie museum of natural history is where I learned about the beetle colonies. And I probably have the professor you say you know. He was my Comparative Vertebrate Anatomy professor last semester and we took a class trip ( all 6 of us) the the archives of the museum.

    I actually think my advisor/professor talked to you about one of his students who was supposed to visit you in the birds section of the museum ( if thats where you work) but she never went. She was actually my room mate and graduated in May.