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Please stop patronizing the beginners

Discussion in 'The Taxidermy Industry' started by George, Oct 1, 2009.

  1. rj9289

    rj9289 Buck the system, be an individual, be who you are.

    i know right, i look at a picture of a deer and tell someone the eyes are too round and i get slammed because im a newbie..........even if i am right, and they know it. i dont get it.
  2. Cole

    Cole Amateur Taxidermist

    ...or if they want to preserve a deer hide with borax and mount, or if they want to shoot some great stuff foam in a fish skin instead of carving a body, or even avoid turning ears and just carding them until dry, we shouldn't tell people they are doing things wrong just because they do it differently. (By the way, these are all actual tips that I've read on here, I'm not making them up)

    I tell people what I feel are better techniques when they are doing things differently than me because I feel there IS a better way to achieve BETTER results.

  3. Randy Miller

    Randy Miller Active Member

    You're crazier than a pet 'coon if you believe any of that
  4. Cole

    Cole Amateur Taxidermist

    Care to elaborate?
  5. elkevo

    elkevo Tailgate Bucks

    I think if a person is asking for help that is one thing, but if they are actually asking to have the mounted object here for all to give their honest feelings about or the so called critique then have at it. They are asking for something in return. This is not liked being judged at some national event and what can you see here with just some part of a photo and sometimes not a good photo at that, or just one view of it. I like to comment on a good looking deer head lets say if i think i was going to have to pay for it. Mistakes are made on all mounts if you were to go to the show and be judged so what makes that any different in here even if it's not done by a real judge. This is learning experience the best I see it, bad or good it be, just listen and learn. Take advice when it is given. Who cares if one says they like it and one says it stinks, these are opinions and not coming from qualified judges going for a Blue ribbon here.
  6. jasonb

    jasonb I think I'll keep her

    I'm with George on this, I will for the most part give a critique via PM but on occasion I have done so in the open forum and have said "looks better than my first" and also gave honest critiques. Cole is right there are some better ways of doing things and there are also things that most of us do not know. I rarely ever visit the beginners section anymore cause there are some people that think they know all there is to know about taxidermy, but can't pull themselves away from blowing roses up there asses, telling those of us that have been around taxidermy longer or those that have better knowledge that we are wrong or to play nice.
  7. redwolf

    redwolf Active Member

    LMAO Now THAT'S a little extreme. I can understand correcting someone if they are wrong, but I'm talking about defending techniques and product that have been being used for years with success. For example, if you don't like to inject you bird feet with fantasticast but someone else does, why argue about it?
    Why not just let them use what others have already proved works?

    That's an opinion. What works for you may not work for someone else.
    My point is that we all do things different. Your way is no better than mine, and Georges way is no better than yours, and on and on. But for some reason every thread ends up turning into an argument because of opinions.
    I don't want an "I love you, you love me" attitude in every thread, but it does get old having to defend your way of doing things on here.
    And that is why a lot don't post. Because they don't want the BS.

    I have gotten PM's about how stupid this thread is but they wont post on it because they don't want to get slammed, but I guess I don't mind ruffling feathers so I posted on it. I'm sure there are more out there that wont post either for the same reason, but hey, I never did know when to keep my mouth shut :D
  8. I am guilty of this. When someone in the reptile category asks " what cha think?" I tend to be a little soft. If they took the initiative to carve and cast their own bodies and it looks somewhat like the specimen should, I will tell them good job. But!! I will also point out what i see wrong. NOW!! If they come back weeks later with a second and third mount, and they all look like the first, then they did not heed any advice, and just thought thyey knew it all and did not improve, then it is Hammer Time!!
  9. joeym

    joeym Jeannette & Joey @ Dunn's Falls

    I'm sure that I am guilty as charged. When I critique online, I usually pick out the visible flaws, then compliment something good about the mount, and encourage them to improve with each piece. I would hate to rip apart a mount, then find out that a 12 year old mounted it. Kids (and newbies) need constructive criticism.
  10. George

    George The older I get, the better I was.

    Bob, why am I not surprised that YOU got PM's about how "silly" this thread is, but I didn't get any? You've spent about half the thread trying to schmooze over the point that there are few prodigies out there and most beginners work needs CRITIQUING when they ask for it. If they want to keep their ugly babies in the closet and feed it bananas, then that's their choice. So stop sucking eggs and tell your PM writers that they can send them to me. I'd just LOVE to create a dialog.

    Joey, you know I agree with that perspective. Yet we are an ego driven industry and if "momma and daddy think my work is just as good as the guy down the road", its tough to break the news about the monkey in the closet without upsetting some tender feelings. I TRY to be above the personal level with the critiques and I know some on here are a bit "callous" in their retorts. I'm not defending that practice either.
  11. zubba

    zubba New Member

    What George just mentioned is the problem with America. Households used to be controlled by the parents...probably more-so the father figure. Now days, households are controlled by the kids. It boggles my mind when I hear a parent say they are busy running here for a soccer game, then there for a swimming lessons, then back here for ballet, then there again for t-ball. Classic case of the kid running the house. God forbid the parent misses a kids soccer game because they have to WORK. If they do, they get labeled the bad parent. In my opinion, 2 years in the military should be required right after high school. Can you image how stong our country would be then, how much respect kids would have, and more importantly our work ethics. Instead, the average American will do anything for money except work.

    Sorry, don't know how I got off on this little rant as it has nothing to do with critiques. I guess I'm just sick of where America is heading.
  12. George

    George The older I get, the better I was.

    You go Kurt. You're my kinda guy. Nice "rant".
  13. Uncle Harley

    Uncle Harley New Member

    LOL Kurt must be something in the water I had the same rant with my wife last night about our 3 ry old running the house
  14. Bill Yox

    Bill Yox Well-Known Member

    Hell Ive been judging work for over 20 years. Yet, you ever notice how I seldom critique in here? I NEVER just offer it up when NOT asked either. Hmmm...wonder why?

    If you have the ability to use tact and actually make a person comfortable with an honest and forthright evaluation of their work when asked, by all means, do so. If you feel uncomfortable doing so...dont, lol.

    Id have to agree with George, Cole and others on this.
  15. Randy Miller

    Randy Miller Active Member

  16. It's realy too bad that in so many cases, puffed up egos are deaf to any reasonable critique any way,(big fish in a little pond mentality).
  17. cole said,-->"when did George brag about how good he is? If anything, he undersells himself all the time. George isn't saying bash the newbs. What he is saying is they will post a pic, and everyone tells them how great it looks. No one gives a critique, just praise. His point is there is little to be gained by that".

    I agree cole, there is nothing to gain by that at all... It's not so much what he tells the newbies as a critique that bugs me, but it's the way he complains and sometimes bashes people, like he's the only authority on the matter, but I will agree, George does know his stuff when it comes to taxidermy, but he doesn't know everything about it as some make us believe. Yesssss, George is damn good at what he does, but, PLEASE, don't make him a taxi god!!! There are other ways that may work just as well, and I also agree that too much praise is given to our newbies, so as not to offend them AND that, I totally agree doesn't really help them while they are trying to learn. Sometimes you have to be brutally honest with them so they will get the point and learn. Most taxidermy cd's and tapes make it look easy and they don't always cover everything. An experience taxidermist, like George and many others in here can shed some better light on what the cd's don't cover, and don't kid yourselves, even the experienced taxidermist can make mistakes. No one is perfect!!! I'm not perfect. I make mistakes all the time, and so does your beloved George. C-mon now, let's be real and brutally honest with ourselves first, and THEN, maybe we can better critique the others... We need to take the beams out of our own eyes, FIRST, and then we can help to take the splinters out of the newbies eyes in order to help them to become better taxidermist... And THAT, is my point!!! And believe it or not, I do respect George's opinions, but to be brutally honest with myself, I can never make him as the only and total authority on anything, but just another (experienced!!!) taxidermy brother who's been in the industry longer than I have and may know something, or may be able to better direct me to a possible better method of mounting an animal that I just can't seem to get. Personally, I like getting more than one opinion because there is always more then one way to skin, or tan a cat... George, who I respect and who many regard, as well as I, as a #1 in the industry, is one of many others in here and that's what makes this taxidermy site what it is, professionals helping other professionals AND newbies to become better...
  18. coonhollow

    coonhollow Active Member

    I totally agree one of my best friends works hours from home, only home on weekends and spends every minute running his kids somewhere for this or that, or having to go with his wife to socialize. she love to let people think they are upper class america and that they can keep up with the Hilton's. She thrives on everyone knowing they have their kids into everything. which is good i guess.
    But... his 14 year old son rules the house, he wanted to learn taxidermy his father messed with it a little. so I told him I would show him as long as he showed up from start to finish. I work weekdays so I told them starting time was 9am sharp! noon one o'clock they would show up because the 14 yo wouldn't get outta bed. sorry class is dismissed...if you can get up to go hunting you can get up to be responsible enough for other things.
    They have asked me and my son to go on a hunting trip with them but they declined after I told them I will drive and everything will be agreed upon before we leave because if this kid get a case of the asses, or sniffles his dad would turn around in the middle of Montana to take him home!
    I don't see them as ofter just because of the fact that I told my friend he needs to find his stones and turn that boy into a man. the kid is such a bookworm woos it makes me sick!
    sorry this was a good topic to vent.lol
  19. RDA

    RDA Active Member

    well lots of opinion I see... I was a proffesional critique person for eight years and critiqued 200 to 240K worth of taxidermy every month....It was up to me if the piece passed, or didnt....That was working with a spread of individuals from across the country...I know how to give critiques in a manner that is positive to the taxidermist and the company! But you guys can rip them new ones if ya want, ill still be doing it my way LOL.....
  20. jim tucker

    jim tucker Active Member

    I don't understand.....you want all our youth to be drunk bikers..!? I guess it depends on WHO you use for examples BUT military service does NOT necessarily make a "great American".

    Military service screws up as many people as it improves. George is BIG on the military BUT if he was REALLY honest he would admit there are just as many DUMBASSES in the military as in civilian life.