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lowballers

Discussion in 'Lifesize Mammals' started by Joe Simmons, Nov 24, 2009.

  1. You know i do not know how these bums are in business for as long as they are, lost a bear to one that is like $600 less , the hunter was in my shop and about hit the freaking floor when i told him my price, he siad he does great work been using him for 15 yrs oh well it was a 120# not a big one, but wow
     
  2. redwolf

    redwolf Active Member

    Like I said in another thread. They are ruining our industry. I'll agree with Bill before he even posts.
     

  3. This year is worse than ever..we have a guy up here in No MN doing deer shoulder mts for $279 and promising 2 month turn around. He is killin us..
     
  4. AFWS

    AFWS The lost Robertson

    I just JOINED the lowballers last week :-\ ::)
     
  5. Steve-o

    Steve-o New Member

    The problem that I see with them is that they will always be there. It will be a different person every year or two, but someone will step in and take their place with that crappy, $275 deer head. I like some of those guys around just so that I can show a client the difference in quality side by side.
     
  6. redwolf

    redwolf Active Member

    Steve the problem is that some of them put out good mounts. They are getting what they can get, and not what they should be getting.
    The only reason they are doing it is to take work from the others. They are an insult to the rest of us.
     
  7. Steve-o

    Steve-o New Member

    Yeah, that would be a big problem. I have yet to see decent quality out of the $275 guy though. I've lost several deer this year because I am too expensive. I personally would rather sit on the couch and watch TV than mount a deer for $275. That would be about $130 in profit for all that work.
     
  8. AFWS

    AFWS The lost Robertson

    Well if you do it in 8-10 hrs(from frozen head to pick up ??? ) like some on here ::) that's $13 to $16 an hour ;)
     
  9. cwt

    cwt Active Member

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    13$ to 16$ an hour is better than my full time job. and 130 profit per deer head would be a dream for me. I started doing this with a freind and now we just split everything down the middle unless I do a whole project by myself then i get all the profit. which would be more than 130 profit. I cant complain its nice play money.
     
  10. Becky P

    Becky P One must believe the glass is half full.

    But out of that $13 - $16 you have to pay your self-employment taxes, insurance, retirement, wages, plus make a profit. Doesn't go that far after you take all that out.
     
  11. ElkinsTaxidermy

    ElkinsTaxidermy www.ronelkinstaxidermy.com

    You won't make 130.00 profit.......taxes,overhead,etc......
     
  12. George

    George The older I get, the better I was.

    Sarge has a post on here about the 10 Commandments of Taxidermy. Each one of them has "bitching" as a theme and bitching about the "lowballers" is simply counterproductive. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink.

    Some of you need to learn early that taxidermy is a lot like playing the stock market or setting at the $5 blackjack table. You have to be in it for the long term and you have to go in with money you can afford to lose. In the big scheme of thing "lowballers" don't matter. The cause those of you concerned with them more angst than they do anything else. SO WHAT IF HE CHARGES LESS?

    If he does bad work, he's simply a pyramid scheme that will very quickly use up his available market. Some people don't know their ass from a hole in the ground and those aren't people you should be concerned with anyway. I simply don't advertise at all since that attracts window shoppers. I've spent decades teaching my clients what to look for (it made me better cause now I have to be sure I keep my mounts better than what they look for) and, in turn, they send friends with similar tastes to me. My pyramid scheme will never use up the resource.

    If they do good work, their prices will, by necessity, have to skyrocket in order to keep up with the workload. The only control any of us have on workload is pricing and for those people who are in it short term or in stressed situation needing a cash flow, who am I to tell them they should quit if they don't charge what I do?

    The MARKET controls us all and how you play is going to determine what you charge. That's why this lame assed excuse "Well, I live in a depressed area and I can't get that around here." I know one special taxidermist that lives in one of the most depressed areas of this country who charges well above anyone anywhere and is constantly busy. His clients don't come from "around here" because he decided to be in the business long term and to appeal and attract those who appreciated his talent.

    Lowballers catch hell on this site simply because most of us are trying to prop up a dime with a nickel. If you pumped septic tanks, would you honestly take off two weeks so you could take your family on a "vacation" to a "Sanitary Engineers Convention and Competition"?

    Each of us needs to starting being true to OURSELVES and work on our own personal image instead of worrying about others and badmouthing what they do. Trust me when I tell you, the world doesn't revolve around taxidermy and when family issues of health and welfare come up, you'll quickly learn just how solvent you are and how good your plans were. I have an occasional new customer who'll tell me that so-and-so down the road only charges $x. I am quick to tell him that I'm not familiar with their work but I'm sure he knows how much his time and work are worth.

    I'll bet at some point, every one of you are the person you're wanting to vilify now. It's just the nature of the business we've chosen to be in.
     
  13. Steve-o

    Steve-o New Member

    That's a good post George, but honestly it sounds like it was written by someone that doesn't rely on taxidermy income to live on. It sounds like someone that has a nice retirement income/pension coming in. I totally understand the guy down the road that wants to mount 300 deer heads in a year so he lowballs everyone to get in all the work. It just seems like working smarter with better quality beats working your fingers to the bone just to afford gas for your old pickup truck.
     
  14. George

    George The older I get, the better I was.

    Steve, a person with a more fragile ego might take that kind of insult personal, but I assure you, when I was a mere E-3 making welfare wages, my taxidermy practices were the same. Your remark is simply the retaliation of someone unwilling to admit the truth and rationalizing their own predicament. Would you make that same remark to Steve Favour, to Dennis Harris, to Mike Boyce, or Jim Marsico, or Mike Kirkhart, or to Ray Hatfield? They don't have "other sources of income". The truth remains unfazed regardless of who speaks it.
     
  15. Steve-o

    Steve-o New Member

    Please don't take that as an insult George. I was just trying to rationalize how 'lowballers' can justify what they do. It seems obvious to me that those type of guys are trying to get as much volume as they can to make a living. I think focusing on quality and not quantity is the way to go. I apologize if my remarks were offensive. (I don't rely on taxidermy income to pay bills, by the way and I keep my prices the same as the full timers in my market.)
     
  16. RDA

    RDA Active Member

    Yes George the truth remains,,,,,,,,,THAT LOWBALLERS HAVE kept our industry in the hobby class......MIKE Boyce Ray Hattfield or the others will tell you the same thing.......I will speak on a call from yesterday... potential customer calls asking for price on sheep shoulder mount. I tell him and get WOW your very expensive seems like the GOING RATE IS FOUR TO FIVE HUNDRED!!!!!!!!!!!!! This after he had called several of the garage-a-dermists....The public has a much different perception than we do......
     
  17. LordRusty

    LordRusty If I agreed with you, we'd both be wrong.

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    There are things in this world that are important, and Taxidermy is not one of them. Not to the guy who is pinching every penny, but still wants to have his trophy class Deer head mounted. To many folks getting that Deer head mounted gets put behind having the money to pay the bills and feed the family! If they cannot afford it, then they cannot afford it. And if someone can corner that market, then more power to them!

    I give my price without giving a rat's ass what anyone else is charging. I'm not them, and they are not me.

    If someone comes in and is surprised at my price -- I'm higher than some by about $50 to $125.00, and lower than some by about $25.00 -- I take them over to a mount and point up exactly what they get for their hard-earned dollar, and never have need to bad mouth the "other guy". Usually this satisfies them. If not they go on their way ... done and done.

    I've had those same gentlemen come back in subsequent years regretting their initial decision, wanting not only their present head mounted, but then inquiring about if and how I can fix or remount their previous "mistake". What goes around comes around.

    You can't what change people do in the here and now. I don't worry about what so-and-so down the next town over is charging or not charging. It's none of my business. My business is my business, and so far it's been good for me, and I don't see that changing because of anyone else.

    Remember, these folks who are charging less are most likely doing Taxidermy as a part-time gig to earn some extra income. The other thing is IT IS THEIR RIGHT ... just as it is your right to choose to get into this field and bitch about them. So ... get over it! And if you can't, then by all means go do something else. You have no right to think you're the only game in town!

    There are others here who have dropped their price by ten to twenty dollars to survive and compete. Look ... you do what you have to do, or you dry up and disappear. It's that simple.

    John.
     
  18. cwt

    cwt Active Member

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  19. cwt

    cwt Active Member

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    no I dont pay retirement and health insurance that is what my full time job is for. 401k and stock in the company I work for is what pays that.this is play money for me I dont depend on it and I dont expect it I get what I get and if I dont get anything or much in a season I guess I just dont get to play as much this year.
     
  20. RDA

    RDA Active Member

    Valid points John,,,,but in fact taxidermy isnt even considered a trade by the government, hence the title of MISC. under tax provisions....By the very nature of the way the "business" has developed we have done nothing but cut our noses despite our faces......You woulod think quality would over come, but it hasnt and certainly is not in this bleak economic toilet bowl... Granted YOU must take care of YOUR business,, but the plain fact is that we all do have radiating cuase and effect. Hence the caller yesterday was thinking the "going rate" was about half of what the quality studios are doing in the area.... Mike B gave many a seminar on this very trend..It fell on deaf ears and he finally gave up that mission to bring a more legitimate atmosphere to our industry.... I have people come in the shop and go wow, this is an actual shop---as there are fourteen pages worth of registered dermists in NV and most are part time out of the garage. NOW, IM NOT SAYING all garage dermists are problems,, but the perception by the public is there....Im coming into this with a very unique view point as I worked for other shops so long that im essentially just another new dermist in the area.....So i get to see all of this very first hand...And yes, it does concern me of what others are charging BECUASE we have GONE BACKWARDS!!!~!~ cutting prices lowballing when our expenses to do the work have been sky-rocketing.....Then You get compared to those types by the public when they call... Then, after getting a sub-standard type mount, they develope a bad taste for taxidermy and taxidermists... Its all well and good to say just worry about yourself, but what we all do has an effect on each other whether we like it or not........