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What makes in house tanning diff from a tannery?

Discussion in 'Tanning' started by rarestjewels, Dec 6, 2009.

  1. coonhollow

    coonhollow Active Member

    I do tan some of my own stuff, and I will be taking some to Sivco... but! you do not need anything more than a tub or bucket to tan in. for what you guys are spending on these thing to save how much time? you would be better off blowing that air up your_______.
  2. Kevin M.

    Kevin M. Active Member

    Well OS . you should only talk about things you know about. I always get every in. back that I start with. If not more. And I hear that repeatedly from guys with auto-tanners.

    And same for you coonhollow. Can you tan in 4 hours in a tub or a bucket?

  3. coonhollow

    coonhollow Active Member

    no, but I cant mount 10 deer in 4 hours either.. but I can tan 10 capes before you could mount them all...
  4. George

    George The older I get, the better I was.

    Kevin, you keep begging for some reason. MOST of us don't wait until 4 hours before we mount an animal to tan the hide.
  5. bill@hogheaven

    [email protected] New Member

    You are talking to the "gotta have it now generation" doesnt matter if the laws of chemistry & physics prove it cant work. If the advertisment says fast, simple easy, skip necessary steps. Some simpletons will buy the product so they dont have think & actually learn the process. Because they gotta have it now a;long with all the snap together parts so they dont have to learn anatomy & actual taxidermy practices. Come up against something different & they are lost & their work proves it. Bob OS glen cyclone & a few others ......Myself & others appreciate you taking the time to teach but you are wasting your breath on the majority of snap on hacksidermists.
  6. coonhollow

    coonhollow Active Member

    you can tan a huge number of skins per batch in vats..how many damn capes can you fit in someones water tank?
  7. coonhollow

    coonhollow Active Member

    And here are the directions off of Dan Rhinharts web site.
    This alum, salt, soda ash combination offers a complete pickle, tan and neutralization in one simple crystal. Only one pound of Tanning Crystals per whitetail cape is needed to completely tan a cape in 4 hours! This revolutionary crystal opens the hide to receive tanning chemicals (alum), saturates hide molecules and neutralizes (locks in) the hide – all in one. The secret of these crystals is the time proven tanning capabilities of Aluminum Sulfate combined with the neutralizing properties of the Soda Ash. The Aluminum Sulfate tans the hide and then the “time released” Soda Ash neutralizes the hide – capturing the tanning chemicals forever. No other single tanning product has ever made hide tanning more Complete and Easy! Pressure Tanning Procedure for BuckTan Crystals: •Remove major meat and fat. --Turn ears, lips, eyes and nose. •Place in tanner, mix 1 pound tanning crystal and 1 gallon of warm water per hide. •Pressurize tank to 50 psi and set timer for 1 hour – remove from tanner and “Final” flesh hide. •Add 1/3 cup of softening oil and 1 cap-full of Scour to tanning solution, re-pressurize tanner to 50 psi for 2nd time and set timer for 3 hours. •After 3 hours remove hide from tanner and quickly (2-4 minute) rinse in cold water/Dawn dish and spin-dry in washing machines or tumble hide in corn cob grit until clean.

    here's the problem! since when has Dan Rhinehart became a tanning expert. the only thing he has going for him when it comes to tanning is that he bought Bruce Rittels business... Bruce is by far the most knowledgeable person I have met on tanning. You wont see a "Bruce Rittel Auto Tanner" anytime soon...
  8. George

    George The older I get, the better I was.

    Dan never runs out of snake oil to market, does he?
  9. coonhollow

    coonhollow Active Member

    George I have to give him and his dad credit, they went far in the business of selling that kinda stuff. I spent almost a week with him years ago and I wasted my money! their students come out there ready to tackle the taxidermy world & to me that's a good thing I have remounted many things from his students. I just don't know how he gets them that confident after they spend time in his school. and they still used his forms! but its like Dan Chase they still keep on going.
  10. I don't have anything against Bruce but most big tanneries have forgotten more about tanning than Bruce will ever know.
  11. coonhollow

    coonhollow Active Member

    I agree Bruce is the man. Tony Skorzo from Rochester was also a knowledgable tanner when it came to taxidermy tanning. as well as Anne's dad from Sivco. when I met him he tanned thousands and thousands of skins per year for the garment industry. after he got his feet wet with taxidermy tanning he adapted well. he even had a formula similar to stop rot that I bought from him. I wish Anne would find that recipe! "hint"
  12. George,

    You are also apparently one of those guys who likes a simple one step tanning product. You use your one step JRTS magic potion on a raw cape and call it tanned.

  13. Monte

    Monte Missouri fur-Limited hair-tanning

    I was wondering how you get soda ash to time release? My experience has been soda ash was unpredictable and we quite using it in 1971.

    Back to the question , whats the difference in between in house and a commercial tannery. The knowledge of the commercial is the big difference. I would love to do a curl test on some of the in house tans. IF in house is working for you , you don't have to promote your method to anyone except your client.

    Some have tried to compare a autotanner to commercial. An autotanner does not have enough capacity to reach the break evan point and cost now over 2000.00 dollars.
    You can take 400.00 dollars worth of rubber maid stock tanks and pickle 100 deer capes in 3 days , shave them and tan in another 2 days max.
  14. George

    George The older I get, the better I was.

    Bruce, lighten up. I have my gasoline ass moments. I don't defend JRTS as a tan but as a hide preservation treatment. I do know that when I pickle the hide, the "tan" works like "McKenzie Tan" and "LiquiTan". I still gte SIMILAR results from JRTS without the pickle. Having said all that, however, I do KNOW what a conventional tan is supposed to be and I spent enough time with a boat paddle over an old bathtub stirring Lutan to understand the concept.

    LMAO @ Monte. I saw that and wondered the same thing. He must've used an old Contac ad for that line.
  15. Monte

    Monte Missouri fur-Limited hair-tanning

    George, It is 19 degrees outside and I am sitting here with my mouth open spitting out blow flies looking at some of these statements.

    I added a few things to my post above.
  16. Not to attack anyone else and agree with Bob...I do home-tan what I can...the bigger heavier stuff i send to tanneries...however, in 2 cases I have had spot slippage with the tanneries...and they are commercial grade professionals, so it just goes to show even the biggest and best can fail sometimes...

    I would say it is all a matter of your budget and agree wholeheartedly with Bob on the responsibilities of proper disposals...

    I neutralized my Krowtann mixes when finished and put them in a 50 gallon drum and took it to the dump, for them to dispose of..what they did with it I have no idea but i do know i marked it as biohazard waste in permenant marker on the barrel....would cost about 30 to 40 bucks for them to dispose of it.
  17. George

    George The older I get, the better I was.

    So just how did you determine that the slip spots on the hide were caused by the tannery and not by haphazard field care or your preparation prior to shipping them?
  18. Steve Rotramel

    Steve Rotramel We got some radical rebels in this county!

    Okay guys, just got back from delivering more machines.

    Bob, you were correct when you said you don't know me. It might therefore have been prudent for you to be a little more deliberate and circumspect in your criticisms.

    I'll give you an example.

    You and some of your syncophants described one of my responses as a sales pitch. I can't believe you're that dimwitted - subtext can't be a concept that's that foreign to you.

    But maybe so.

    So let me put it this way as plain as I can - Bob, Aubrey, and Monte: you are getting into a no win argument that I did not start. In fact, I tried to defuse it a couple times. All you can do with this argument is hurt your position and your bottom line. And once it starts, the only way for you to call a truce is to stop answering. That's fine, I will lay off at that point. But everyone will know that you have run off to a closet to cry like little girls.

    Why not let's be friends instead?
  19. michael p.

    michael p. Getting better with age :)

    They all work if they work for you. Bob, you said "Why do you think the really big studios don't do their own tanning? I mean if anyone could justify the expense of auto tanners and saw dust drums and so forth it would be the big studios who have the volume in house to justify the expense, and yet they don't ...why? Because the truly successful taxidermist have learned there is no money in it...the money is in the mounting not the tanning." Bob, walk into know that RJ Simington's studio out there in Oregon & one of the first things you will see is his auto tanners. I think RJ is an example of a "successful Taxidermist & I also believe his studio could be considered "big" by any standards in this industry.

    Here's the deal, they ALL work if done correctly and you are comfortable with it as I said above. Rick Carter swears by Krowtann, does that make him wrong??? George likes JRTS....is he wrong ??? Tom Voyer loves Sivco....is he wrong ??? Most of the small Tanneries in Kerrville use a "pickle tan", are they wrong ??? No, they are all right because they get the "proven" results that the method chosen by them works. I am going through a transformation in my shop. I love doing my thin skinned whitetail with DP and Stop Rot, but as a business descision I am finding a "home" tan that works for me. The best cape I worked with last year was an Elk I sent to Carolina Fur. See, the possibilities are endless and if done correctly ALL these methods mentioned above will outlast us all and be there for the next generation to argue about.
  20. Monte

    Monte Missouri fur-Limited hair-tanning

    Steve, your attempt to discredit 3 professional tanners will never have substance.
    What you do not understand is that any pressure tanner is not big enough for our use. If your pressure claim had creditability then show me the comparitive return on the investment of a 3 meter diameter drum.
    Can you tan a 100 deer capes in 5 days with one auto tanner?
    Can you explain why the pressure makes a better tan? Speed does not matter, as we can static tan more than any one in shop tanner can shave in a week anyway.

    I CAN PROMISE YOU STEVE I WILL NOT BE IN A CLOSET CRYING WHEN I QUIT POSTING TO YOUR INSIGNIFICANT REPLIES. And I am sure Bob and Aubry are not going to lose any sleep over you either.

    EVERYONE PLEASE NOTE. Over the last 4 years I have emailed or pm'ed all of the folks who make a pressure tanner and not one has replied with any kind of answer detailing the benefits of the pressure.
    There is no doubt in my mind that these small tanners work. No one ever said they didn't. They provide mechanical action. For my requirment they are not big enough and cost too much for the amount of hides you can put through them