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For all us idiots That use and Like the auto-tanner !!!!

Discussion in 'Tanning' started by Kevin M., Dec 11, 2009.

  1. Kevin M.

    Kevin M. Active Member

    Hey with all the negitive crap going on about the Auto-Tanner. If you like . And use the auto-tanner. List yourself here. And why if you want.
    Thanks. Kevin McClure
     
  2. George

    George The older I get, the better I was.

    Kevin, is that burr under your saddle terminal or just temporarily uncomfortable. Did you REALLY think professional tanneries were going to compare that tool to what they do? You can ask them about Krowtann, JRTS, LiquiTan or DP and get the same reaction from them. Wise up and move on. There'll always be a market for "alternative preservation methods".
     

  3. Kevin M.

    Kevin M. Active Member

    Sorry George, I guess I should take after you. And never argue an issue I believe in. Sorry.
     
  4. antlerman

    antlerman NTA Life Member #0118

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    Kevin, I personally want the debate to continue and hears why. I have read endless pages on auto tanners and krowtan. So much so that it only leaves me confused. I screwed up when I bought the Dakota 5 fleshing machine. I should have bought the PRO Series Dakota. Why? Adjustment ease. Now, Ben Julian has for sale a stainless steel autotanner. I'm interested, BUT some say pressure does nothing. Some hate krowtan ect and ect. I learned tanning in house from Joe Meder. At that time what he taught me was formic acid pickle and liquatan. Ok, so be it. That was 15 years ago. I talked to Joe a few months ago and he simply said there are many ways to skin a cat, and there are a lot of new ways out there now that didn't exist when you studied under me. OK, I get that. However, why is there so many people with autotanners for sale if they are so great? I know of at least 3 right now. Some tell me they would ever go back to bucket tanning. Others say any form of tanning short of using a tannery is half assing it. Some still swear by DP. I hate running a fleshing machine with a passion, so in the warmer months I pressure washer flesh. Works for me, but in the winter months I have no choice but the machine. I'm now tanning with Krowtan. I had a couple of learning curve issues in the beginning but have learned how to get the job done without slippage issues. Ok, so that's seems to be working. But I've had some tell me to get an autotanner and some say they are a waste of money. Anymore I don't know who to believe and after screwing up buy buying the cheaper Dakota 5 instead of the PRO, If I'm gonna buy an autotanner I'm for sure gonna buy the Stainless Steel version, which isn't a Cheap mistake. So PLEASE let the debate continue. Someone may just say something that persuades me one way or the other.
     
  5. Kevin M.

    Kevin M. Active Member

    I still have my 19 gal. auto tanner that sold for about $850 when I got it. Still works great. Have my Dakota 4 fleasher. Still runs like the day I got it. 6 years I think. Have both paid for themselves many time over. If you don't want to discus the issue Don't.







    [/quote]
     
  6. antlerman

    antlerman NTA Life Member #0118

    12,573
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    What did you misunderstand?? I want it discussed.
     
  7. Kevin M.

    Kevin M. Active Member

    OK miss read it. Sorry.
     
  8. d ball

    d ball New Member

    I bought one of the origanal auto tanners from Steve who designed them. I have used it now for eleven years with great results and have tanned a few capes for other taxidermist in our association. They all said they had great stretch and wanted me to do more for them but I am to busy to do more than just my own. Although I just bought the NEW TANNING DRUM from Steve and will be going to put it to use this next week. Steve says it will give a better stretch and hair set then the auto tanner. It is not pressurized. It is basically the same principle as the auto tanner with a little different mixture of tanning crystalls and oil.
     
  9. antlerman

    antlerman NTA Life Member #0118

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    I guess one of the things that concerns me IS the great amount of stretch. I get that with Krowtan also and it makes me think that something is still raw because it stretches like a raw skin. Any thoughts on that??
     
  10. Kevin M.

    Kevin M. Active Member

    I've never used Krowtan.So I can't compare the 2. Maybe I should get some and give it a try. I will on my next order. That won't be till January though.
     
  11. George

    George The older I get, the better I was.

    Antlerman, let's look at some issues here. First, why would you buy a Dakota 5. There's damned sure more than enough information on that selection on here that IF someone was prone to taking advice, they wouldn't have bought. The PRO has that name simply because that's what it was designed for. PROFESSIONALS want the lattitude and flexibility to do multiple jobs and a machine that's designed to meet all those needs. Yet you bought the 5.

    Now comes the fleshing. You hate fleshing and have resorted to the "easy way out". For all the advantages of pressure washing, the disadvantages and especially the nasty assed cleanup (unless you don't have neighbors closeby) are a constant. Pressure washing does nothing for shaving a hide to where it will take a tan better, so it's simply an extra tool in the mix if you're going to actually TAN a hide.

    Now you use Krowtann which is not now nor ever been anything but a pickle in itself. I'm constantly reminded that things have changed over the years and that "new" methods make the results much better than the old pickle tan methods of the early years of last century. Maybe - maybe not as it obviously takes time to elapse before anyone can espouse that as a "fact".

    Now let's address the autotanner directly. Tanning pickles are acid and acid is corrosive. Stainless steel drums may sound like a novel approach, but even a high school freshman knows that acids can only be stored in plastic or glass containers without worry of corrosion. A stainless steel drum using something as innocuous as alum as a pickling agent is STILL going to be subject to some corrosion (many call it "etching"). When an acid etches a container, portions of the metalic content of the container is absorbed into the acids. Certainly not an overwhelming problem but again, just the total lack of education my many of you who "play" with this process.

    Though Joe is correct in his comments to you, most cognizant people should understand that "faster" is not always "better". As several professional tanners have noted here, do you REALLY think that if any of these "home brews" were "better" or "faster" that it wouldn't make more sense for them to incorporate them into THEIR businesses first?

    I hear all the bulls hit about "I maintain better control". What I'm really hearing is that "I'm insecure and don't trust sending my hides out to be professionally done." OR "I'm in a hurry and I want them done NOW!" My personal excuse is that if I keep them in house, I control my own work schedule completely without having to worry about storing tanned hides or worrying about making time to transport them to shippers.

    So again, all of this is a tradeoff. Each individual is going to make his or her own decision. Some will listen to educated and intelligent reasoning, while others "know better" and do what they want to do.
     
  12. Mr.T

    Mr.T New Member

    I have had two auto tanners,, I now have none. I went back to the tubs and static tan. Personal choice, I didn't really need it. If I had hundreds of capes to do, I would send them out, but thats not me, I got the time.
     
  13. antlerman

    antlerman NTA Life Member #0118

    12,573
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    Yep, George you are right. I made a stupid choice in the 5. Should have went with my gut and bought the PRO. As for the presure washer, I use that for rough fleshing only. I do have to come back and shave on the shaver. As for the auto tanner, I'm not sold yet. Paul's comment is exactly why I'm not sold as well as what you said George about the tanneries not using them. I guess since I have no peice of mind about this I may just go back to old reliable. Formic and Liquitan/McKenzie Tan. I don't know. The Krowtan sure is easy, if it works. I'm not an expert enuf to say if it is or isn't. Often times still feels like a raw cape to me. But I like being able to do up a cape at my pace verses waiting on stuff to come back from a tannery so in house is the way I prefer. Plus it seems far cheaper for me to do them myself.
     
  14. Mr.T

    Mr.T New Member

    If I had to tan two or three capes everyday of the year, the auto tanner would have helped with speed. But it sat more then I used it. If you got the flow and numbers, it would be a good tool to have. But for the hobby guy like me, I didn't need it, but didn't come to that conclusion until I had boughten two of them. Krowtann takes the same amount of days a salt,pickle and static tan does, so I don't see that advantage of Krowtann other then it is toxic as hell.
     
  15. Well, here is my reasonings.
    I dont do a large amount of work (yet). When i do get a cape in, it is usually one or two. Being I have low volume, I provide a fast turn around time. Salting and shipping ONE cape to the tannery is an utter waste of time. For one, the cost of shipping and tanning itself. Second, the wait to get it back. 2 to 3 months later, I finish the mount. I paid for shipping and tanning (yeah, yeah, included in the mount cost....)

    My mother bought me a beat up old 16 gallon auto tanner last year for Christmas. Other than looking beat up, it is in perfect working condition. The tanning solution is extreemly cheap. The most expensive thing is the tanning oil, and per cape cost is not much when broke down.
    I used to pressure wash, but have since gotten a Dakota IV and V.
    Using the auto tanner, pickling and even salting is not needed.

    I can get a deer in, cape and flesh it that day. The next day, I can tan and mount all in one day. I can have a customers deer back to them in 2 to 3 weeks. No shipping or tanning costs, no wait. I may have a longer lead time only if I have to order materials.

    As far as the tan, I have used DP, Krowtann, Liquatann, McKenzie tan, and three diffrent professional tanneries, wet and dry tans. So it cant be said I have no experience with "other" tans on diffrent types of skins, since I have done stuff from squirrel to horse. The stretch and quality of the tan on the auto tanner is no diffrent than the tans from the Wildlife Gallery, Golden State, or Wildlife Fur Dressing. I use my Dakota IV to thin the sensitive areas like eyes, nose, lips, etc. If the cape is shaved well, I have never had a problem with shrinkage or drumming. All hide pastes work well.

    When the day comes that my volume picks up, I will be even more thankful for my auto tanner.

    If you are a high volume taxidermists or just dont want the work of tanning yourself, fine,... send them out. But I do not understand why some here feel the need tobash the ones who do use the auto tanners. The result is perfectly fine if you choose to take the time to do the work yourself in house. I have yet o hear the great complaints and such about "how my auto-tanned deer fell apart" from customers. Sure, you may hear that about DP, but I do not debate the fact that DP is not a tan. There are thousands of auto tanners out there, if they were not working, they wouldnt be making and selling them in the volume they do.

    Everyone has their preference. But if you want to save some time and even some money, I would recomend getting one. If you simply dont want to do the extra work yourself and feel safer sending them out, then fine, do it. But to debunk those who use a diffrent method is wrong.
     
  16. Kevin M.

    Kevin M. Active Member

    Well said Gravity.
     
  17. George

    George The older I get, the better I was.

    Anna, hold the phone. The only "argument" here was that the final product was not the same as a commercial tan. CHEMISTRY defines that and thus far, no one, including Steve has answered a single chemistry question up to and including the necessity of salting a hide prior to tanning. Your analogy fails miserably when tens of thousands of taxidermists use DP. Thousands of us use paint on that skip conventional steps. "Might doesn't prove Right". If YOU are satisfied with your method then you have only yourself to satisfy. Kevin started this silly assed post because he was getting spanked on the other one and is simply looking for company to make him feel better. I know what I use IS NOT CONVENTIONAL, but I'm pleased with my results and will continue to use WHAT I AM COMFORTABLE WITH. All of you need to do the same.
     
  18. Kevin M.

    Kevin M. Active Member

    No , George. This silly assed post was started to show those arrogant tanneries that their way is not the only way. And this silly assed little post was apparently not too silly for you was it.
     
  19. George

    George The older I get, the better I was.

    Actually, no it wasn't. I've assumed a role here, welcome or not, to provide an opposing opinion when dumbass remarks show up for those who haven't been around this block a few times. Steve didn't invent the wheel or the windmill and the tanneries could really give a damn about you or those who think like you concerning what's a "real tan" and what's a "preservation treatment". The quality businesses in this industry keep them busy year round and most are having to expand their facilities because of the increased workloads. None of them are selling tumblers or vats or chemicals, but they don't want their products compared with what we do to "get by" in our shops. Those "arrogant tanners" are simply putting the correct information out there for those smart enough to understand and comprehend chemistry. If my posting here will save one beginner from making an ass of himself by "assuming" the products are the same, then I'm satisfied.
     
  20. Well, George, looks like your posting on the wrong thread.... If I read correctly, THIS thread is for those who use and like autotanners and their explainations of why. You seem to be commenting on the subject that is the "debate" on the OTHER thread.

    But, to clarify my comments,... yes I know many use DP on deer. I use DP, but on small animals. I have used it on deer. AND, I HAVE heard from customers about DPed deer that do not stand up to the test of time or climate. My comment was I have never heard these similar comments/complaints on AUTO TANNED deer like I have heard about DPed deer.

    And, yes, I am pleased with the results of my tanning. BUT I am NOT the one who needs to be satified, my customers are.