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Earbutt Masters please critique

Discussion in 'Deer and Gameheads' started by Vince Spellane, Jan 17, 2010.

  1. Photos below
     
  2. This is my first try at an aggressive ear....please let me know what you think of the positioning as well as musculature and location...this will be used in an upcoming competition. I roughed it in tonight and still have the rest of the week to make changes as necessary. I couldn't find any casts, models, or photos of anatomy with hair removed, in an aggressive pose, so I placed everything how I thought it would move or distort in a sharper angle. Skull plate, back of head, and right ear are not finished. Head was also cut off pivoted from atlas/axis to obtain more of "hard look" pose.

    Thanks
    Vince
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    Pivot point and bottom line were based on many skull measurements to locate ear canal
     

  3. fozziebear

    fozziebear Active Member

    Hey Vince, since I always put my earliners in before I mount and then form my butt's with clay, I was wondering how you go about mounting.... do you detatch your earliner's from the form or do you mount it up the way it is? Never seen it done this way..... but that's not say'n much lol, have not been doin it long so there are lots of way's of doin things. Can it be done with a short y cape? Please explain your method to a beginner lol. Thanks Rick
     
  4. Rick

    It's a bit more work this way but you can get excellent detail. It can be used through a short Y, you have to make the antlers detachable, and also make the earbutts detachable...I have done it several times through the short Y. This one will be much easier since this is a lifesize mount with a complete dorsal cut...this is the second of the two that I am doing and the first one I was able to mount by only making one ear butt detachable and was able to keep the antlers attached. Check out issue 80 and 81 of Breakthrough... Rick Carter gives an excellent description of how it is done. If I get some extra time I will try to put more pics up possibly from the breakthrough articles... but I'm pushing my time limits on this one I have to have two lifesize whitetails and habitat complete for the PA show at the end of Feb, this project just might kill me LOL !!!
     
  5. fozziebear

    fozziebear Active Member

    Right on! Thanks Vince, thanks for explaining it to me! Good luck at the show!!!! Rick
     
  6. Anyone???
     
  7. Nice work, looks like you have it figured out.
     
  8. Vince, I don't have any aggressive photos of whitetails, but from what I can see they look real good. Did you do them with apoxie sculpt?? I like doing it that way for show pieces and will probably do it on my mule deer this year. The only tough part is getting the skin to fit without too many wrinkles or leftover skin. I'm sure you'll get it though. Remember to check for wrinkles in the back of the ear butts while it's drying. There should be some small ones but make sure they're in the right spot before it's too dry. Good luck, Steve
     
  9. Steve, Yep that is apoxie sculpt...Thanks for the response, I have done them several times and have not had trouble with the wrinkles, But I've learned to never say never, I'll keep an eye out for it. I use a two part epoxy from the hardware store with a 20 min set but it really takes about 3 hours and it is the best thing I have found for these areas....I did have some drumming in the past on the side of the butt using regular paste though.

    Thanks again
    Vince
     
  10. Hoss0902

    Hoss0902 I drink to make other people seem more interesting

    I might not have a soap box to stand on but I was taught a little different, and I am going to say it with caution.

    A "line" form the nasal "wing" to the top of the tear duct meets the top of the ear butt.

    another line from the nasal "wing", to the bottom swell of the eye meets the bottom of the ear butt.

    now this is what I see the bottom of your ear butt is a little low.

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    Please correct me if I am wrong.

    thanks,
    Hoss
     
  11. I love this post. This is the one position that gets alot of attention. Your right, there is not alot of reference out there. I tried one of these about three years ago and George and ken Bauman helped me tremendously. I want to try this again in the future as well so I want to see what they say about yours. Great pictures BTW, you also sculpted the muscles very well. Keep in mind most judges are going to want to see the deers eye WIDE open also. Great job so far, cant wait to see the finished piece. Good luck at the comp too.
     
  12. Good point on the eyes Jared. Vince, I'll try and find some photos of mule deer in the same pose. By the way, you're going to love mine and Derek Ekdahls new earliners. I'm trying out our first pair on my mule deer for the coming Utah state show. Whitetails will be forthcoming.
     
  13. Can't wait to see those whitetail earliners Steve!
     
  14. redog76

    redog76 New Member

    cant wait to see your mounts at 7 springs!!!!
     
  15. Try this link, A couple of muley bucks. I think you're golden.

    http://www.monstermuleys.com/cgi-bin/tours/site.pl?page=zzzzztour2&tem=t2
     
  16. Hoss,

    Thanks for the input....please don't be worried about hurting my feelings or being wrong or right....This is about all of us learning together. Man these whitetails are some unique creatures and very difficult to recreate. I see what you are saying, your middle pic seems right on and follows your rule...the others, the line looks to be at the inferior adductor of the auricle...I guess it depends on what we are defining as the end of the earbutt....take a look at the depressor of the auricle where it tapers in behind the jaw....I was looking at this on mine and in some aggressive ref and some possibly not aggressive but with close positioning and they seem lower similar to how I set mine. Please let me know if I am looking at this wrong, I'm going to review again once I post the following pictures.

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    I'm thinking my inferior adductor of auricle my be slightly heavy making it a bit low shown in above picture
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    This one below seems to break a couple rules...possibly slight angle of picture...or just that nature has no rules
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    Good detail on this one you can really see the muscles
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  17. RedDog76 I'm feeling a little rushed but am going to try my hardest to have them at Seven Springs...look me up when your there...I hope I can do them justice. Steve can't wait to see the new earliners also, thanks for the mule deer pics love the hair (any thoughts or info on back brushing for this one). Jared thanks for the info on the eyes. If anyone has any ref that may be helpful please send it my way.

    Thanks again
    Vince
     
  18. vince i think by looking at your reference lines if you see the deer in your refernce pics that line should run from the nasal opening thru the eye to the bottom of the antler burr the line you drew is running a inch higher on the antler, that mesurement is throwing off your ear butts. i hate to say it but you may have to raise your antlers a bit higher which would put your ear butt higher as well i could be wrong but that one line tells the tale. competition deer suck because everything has to be right on the money everything has to be in its rightful place look everything over in the morning with a fresh set of eyes if you have to redo it then i would, it could be the difference between a 2points to place a first . two years ago i missed first place by two points worst part about it was i seen the earbutt problem but i thought i could sneak it by the judge it didnt work. and if i could go back again i would of fixed it now im in the rocess of doing my competition piece and this post has refreshed my memory thanks vince doug
     
  19. Doug,
    Thanks for checking it out....I'm not understanding how moving the antlers up would raise my earbutt (not trying to be smart just not understanding what you are saying) I think by using antler burr as reference you have to take into consideration the variety of shapes of burs ( should have taken press and seal off of antlers so you can see it better) this bur has a bit of an extension coming down, and from the line drawing it looks to be about an 1/8 or slightly more below the line, which is about the amount of bur that extends down. I didn't use that line as ref when placing buts and antlers, what I did use is caliper measurements off of many of the skulls that I had and I found that the measurement from the back of the orbit to the opening of the ear canal is exactly the same as the measurement from the ear canal to the center of the pedicle coming off the skull and extending a line up through to the middle of the bur (that way you are not thrown off by the variety of bur shapes). Ear canal was also located through caliper measurements. So if it is true what you are saying about the antlers needing raised, according to nature (skull measurements) the ear canal must raise up to follow and this would bring my earbutt up (Is that what you were meaning) which would mean the ear canal was too low. I think the ear canal is right on.... what do you think of the ear canal placement and my rationale. This is all making me think, and I like it.

    Thanks
    Vince
     
  20. Doug I also used a line from nasal wing to top of orbit to run through center of pedicle and best line of fit up through antler for height and angle. You can see this line on my first post, I believe last picture. I will post some other that I have of this line on live animals when I get home from work. If you are saying it is an inch off, I would move the antlers up an inch and this would throw this line way off and also make a strange transition from the form to the skull plate. Again let me know if I am thinking correctly