1. Welcome to Taxidermy.net, Guest!
    We have put together a brief tutorial to help you with the site, click here to access it.

Formic acid & oil Vs. complete tanning

Discussion in 'Deer and Gameheads' started by michael p., Jan 18, 2010.

  1. JerryH

    JerryH New Member

    I am waiting on the picture of the woman with big boobs ;D
  2. cyclone

    cyclone Posts: 400001

    Here ya go! 1 woman with two bigguns!


  3. If the non blob circled area depicts collagen unfolding, then the last picture should be a much more pliable hide.
  4. Bobbi Meyer

    Bobbi Meyer I luv to ride my tricycle, I luv to ride my trike

    ready for neutralizing and it's tanning agent!
  5. JerryH

    JerryH New Member

    Not what I had in mind ------------- but your are correct because that is exactly what I see in that picture ;)
  6. Monte

    Monte Missouri fur-Limited hair-tanning

    Since I have never seen the effects of various acids on collegan under a microscope I can only guess the last photo is acid treated collegan which may be holding togather and the fibres are more stable in this photo. Just a guess.

    Bobbi, I don't know any commercial tanners that neutralize first , then tan . IMO, add the tanning agent then work until the agent has penetrated the skin and then neutralize to the exact pH you want. When you neutralize after the pickle and before the tanning agent is added you are only guessing about penetration and pH through the thickness of the skin.
  7. Monte

    Monte Missouri fur-Limited hair-tanning

    Back to the hog , the dog and the women.
    I can tell them apart because I have experience in tracking. And , I have something in my memory for comparison.
  8. Kevin M.

    Kevin M. Active Member

  9. Bobbi Meyer

    Bobbi Meyer I luv to ride my tricycle, I luv to ride my trike

    told you he was at it..........

    Glendalf the Great

    Attached Files:

  10. Glen Conley

    Glen Conley KARMA GOOSE R.I.P. 2006-2006

    Darn good "guess". I developed that acid formulation a number of years ago thinking longevity of a mount would be much greater if the collagen fibers were not destructed in the pickling process. With the passage of time, my theory has proven to be correct. But if a taxidermist's idea of longevity is that it only has to last long enough to go out the door, then my point is moot.

    Another dose of Monte wisdom. You guys had best be paying attention when I throw something out there, it's not too likely you would venture on your own to gain the information.
  11. Glen Conley

    Glen Conley KARMA GOOSE R.I.P. 2006-2006

    Bobbi, coming soon to a Who's Who near you, the public debut of the matriarchal leader of the wild human shes. She will be accompanied by her faithful duodenum mount, Flatulence. Together, and with assistance from other human shes, they wage war on Bat Guano. Just as Superman has an allergy to kryptonite, Bat Guano has one to red lines.
  12. Bobbi Meyer

    Bobbi Meyer I luv to ride my tricycle, I luv to ride my trike

    let me guess who bat guano is!!! LOL
  13. Glen Conley

    Glen Conley KARMA GOOSE R.I.P. 2006-2006

    Bat Guano thinks capes are made of cells. He needs massive doses of Red Line Therapy applied by human shes to get his thinking straightened out. Is there ANY hope?

    He is trying to lead innocent little children astray with his talk of capes being made of cells. He must be stopped.

    Attached Files:

  14. Bobbi Meyer

    Bobbi Meyer I luv to ride my tricycle, I luv to ride my trike

    AHA...I KNEW it was george!!

  15. Ok I will bite, if it takes temps of 160F to make the lleahter start falling apart. Where in most homes is the temp going to be found? With all respect Glen. I have customers with some old mounts I did when I was starting out that have not changed. Then as Liqa Tan I think I used every short cut known to man in using it, flesh the skin rub it on let it set overnight and mount, used JRTCream the same way. I have used a lot of the same stuff in the auto tanner. the Crystals, the Arrowhead tanning chemicals. Even all of your system.

    What I find is all of it works fine, the raw skins with any quick tanning always have a smell I dont like.

    I have even used the Spray Tans, Joe Combs Spray tan is nothing more than Denaturaed alc. yes it has a nice blue flame! I even have mounted skins using straight denatured alch for the True Value..

    It all works one way or another. Even Alum tans work.

    I have a pronghorn that was alum tanned in 1996, stillin fine shape no cracks nothing, dextrin glue. its not had very good care, stored in a commercial storage unit for several years, even in a very bad place that it should have fallen apart. Same with several deer heads.

    So whats the point of putting out a super duty leather just to hang on someones wall?

    I am starting to think that the oiling has more to do with the longevity of leather than the tanning chemicals. Or maybe iots just the acid used in the pickle?

    What does the same skin look like in the different pickles, i.e citric, formic, oxylic etc.
  16. Monte

    Monte Missouri fur-Limited hair-tanning

    There are many, many factors that inter into longevity. How long the animal was dead before a stabalizing effort to stop autolysis, bacteria, ect.
    JohnC. you are correct about the oil.
    Formic acid would not be my acid of choice.
    My concern as a taxidermist first was to end up with a tanned skin that met my requirments through out the mounting and drying process. So , I bought the tannery in 1971 so I would have everything I need from a mechanical view. Since I was not a chemist I brought in the skills and our experiments began. We were able to go from the tannery to the studio and see the results in less than a week of drying.

    Since we were a commercial tanner we wanted a process that would work for flats, display, and mounting without having many formulas.

    A note; the raw skin will be damaged at a temp way below 160F. That is just where Glen chose to make the slide, I think.

    My goal is still to make a perfect tan that covers my needs. The chalange is still the oil.

    I agree with Glen, it is all moot . There are ways to test which is best , but it won't make any difference.
  17. rayray38821

    rayray38821 New Member

    ok say I use a alum tan, I soke it overnite in a salt brine, then I take it out and put it in my alum tan,shave return overnite then reshave it, then neutralize it and oil it. ok after the oil has been soaked in overnite what is the best way to clean the cape for mounting without washing the oil out of the skin?
  18. Monte

    Monte Missouri fur-Limited hair-tanning

    Ray, First I wash re-hydrated capes and they are clean before we pickle and tan.
    The oil is another thing and we don't do wet tan. (if I do need to do a wet tan I use liqua-tan instead of oil ,swabbing on the finished alum tan). Neither does the outside tanners I use. Because from a commercial tanners point the tan is not complete. IF the exact pH for fixing the alum is achieved through out the thickness of the shaved skin. Then the alum is fixed, but the oil is not until it dries. The shrink temp. goes way up after the oil is fixed and dried.
    The proper wet tan will most likely have a fat-liquar used more like commercial buckskin leather. In commercial tanning we do any required washing before our final drying. Home and in shop tanners have no way of analyzing and controling their oil sorce. I have seen bad oil . However , tanners , both commercial and home or bucket tanners should be able to get consistant results with the pickling and tanning. Age and condition and species of the skin play a hugh part in all this..

    Commercially speaking I can give you an alum tanned , washable skin . I won't give the formula for that.

    I do like a brief wash in pert shampoo on the hair side then drum in sawdust for 10 minutes and mount. You will not believe the difference in the hair of the finished mount.

    Try air drying for 2 days , them rehydrate and rinse and mount .

    Now back to the microscope with Glen.
  19. rayray38821

    rayray38821 New Member

    Thanks Monte!
  20. Glen Conley

    Glen Conley KARMA GOOSE R.I.P. 2006-2006


    Is Bat Guano's cape made of cells?