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I give up! Folks just dont care about real tanning anymore!

Discussion in 'Tanning' started by Rhino, Jan 20, 2010.

  1. TD

    TD My GGG Grandfather John "Tanner John" King b 1820

    Well I did make a statement that needs correcting.........Not Every stupid question is asked by a Rookie ,but most............
    I was in a hurry when I wrote it,as I am working today............

    As you know Hudson,I use Krowtan............My work turns out good ,but then ,I do properly prep My capes and form.............
    I'm not saying My mounts are as good as yours, [email protected] or George or anyone Else's(Quality Wise).........but I know where I stand as far as My talent is concerned........
    There are plenty of Talented Taxidermist out there using the KT ,not all ever even come to this sight...........
    MOST all of the questions about KT are by Newbies.........
    I take it you Own or work for a tannery?
    I'm giving a workshop today and tomorrow that were commercial wet tanned capes done by some tannery in Ca.,I don't know the name yet(I wouldn't post it if I did).These capes were advertised as ready to mount from the state of a raw cape.........Ive seen rookies turn lips,eyes,nose and the ears better than they did and its a wonder there is not any slippage in those areas..........Also,My client was told that they did not need washing and they were ready to go...........I had to relax them more to get them to fit the form so that was bull lol................
    The tan appears to be good but then can we take their word for it ........
    I used Liqua Tan and Lutan-F for years before I ever used KT and I DPed before that..........and I'm not talking about mounting one or two,I'm talking 100s +..................I'm not talking about just trying it,I'm talking about Using it...........
    How in the world can someone that only tried Krowtan once or even a few times ,argue with me about how bad or how good it is?............
    Any Home tan takes some getting used to.to make it work the best for your purpose..........I can do a KT cape that wont stretch worth a dam and I can do the same with every other home tan,but...........I know how to work skins to give them the stretch I need and that comes from lots of experience..............
     
  2. bill@hogheaven

    [email protected] New Member

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    I had no problem with kt getting capes that would not stretch back to original size.
     

  3. TD

    TD My GGG Grandfather John "Tanner John" King b 1820

    Bill...........If I was to Neutralize and wash a very thick northern deer and then shave him thin and then mount...............that cape would NOT mount up as good as one that I Shave first,then neutralize wash and mount.He would need to be relaxed more to get that stretchier cape.............
    Directions tell you to do it that way but as much as Ive worked with these skins I find I get better results doing it My way.............Perhaps the neutralizer penetrates the skin better after its thinned...........As a seasoned taxidermist,I can tell a big difference,where a beginner would not know the difference or someone that hasn't used it much............they would assume it is normal because they followed the directions...........
    I don't care what system you use..........I don't think any are easier than the other,maybe less steps involved and less monitoring but not easy...........
     
  4. George

    George The older I get, the better I was.

    Tom, I think you need to buy you a new fleshing machine. That's twice I've seen you comment about when and how to shave. Since I don't see anything BUT Northern tier deer and I don't neutralize, I learned long ago that the shaving aspect is one of determination. I know that an acid swelled hide WILL shave much easier, but "easier" is the operative word. I flesh and shave them when they're raw. Then I salt them, wash them off and shave them again before painting on the JRTS. Then when I'm ready to mount, I wash off the JRTS and final shave them before mounting. I NEVER have an issue of shrinkage or of the hide being not shaved down close enough.

    I do, however, agree with your assessment to where the dumbass questions are coming from. I guess that's what galls me about these types jumping into taxidermy without the slightest clue of what they're doing or how to do it and US being gullible enough to encourage them and talk them through it without any real efforts on their part. A post the other day is a prime example. "Will temperature effect Krowtann?" EXCUSE ME? What the hell kind of stupid question is that. It not only effects Krowtann, it effects ANY TAN. But they simply don't have a clue about tanning or even basic chemistry.
     
  5. TD

    TD My GGG Grandfather John "Tanner John" King b 1820

    You don't neutralize George because you are using a different system.........i didn't neutralize My DP mounts either..............and I guess if I used JRTS like you do then I wouldn't neutralize those either..............but I assure you what I stated is fact...........
    The way it sounds to me with this paint-on tan ,its the same as painting on that tan and stretching a raw cape on the form............

    "Will temperature effect Krowtann?" A dumbass question? Well.......NO............Not coming from a beginner..............
    In fact ..........actually there are only a few dumbass questions if it comes from a beginner lol.............Evidently you've forgotten what it was like to be Young and new and ask all those stupid questions.......... lol............(Remember the saying "Young and Dumb and full of..............you know rest of the saying lol)
    Your just getting Old and Ornery George and your tolerance is getting low..............
     
  6. young dumb and full of ...candy????????????????????
     
  7. Rhino

    Rhino Too many irons in the fire will put the fire out!

    Would a couple of you HONESTLY answer this next question, please?

    I have seen and heard of MANY instances, where a state will issue only a certain number of permits, for a specific animal, to allow their hunting. Working for a large tannery, I hear of this all the time. In a sence, these skins CANT BE REPLACED, if for nothing else, than the cost of the permit, and the hunt. We tanned a snow leopard, a few weeks ago. This is also an example of a skin, THAT SIMPLY CANT BE REPLACED!

    I just read about a desert bighorn permit, for west Texas, that was auctioned off, for $104,000.00!

    Here is my question for you KT advocates. Or, any other users, of anything less than a TRUE TAN. The man or woman that harvested this ram, will have over $110,000.00 invested in this hunt.

    If this ram, were brought to your place of business, for you to mount lifesize, how would you tan the skin? Would you Krow-Tan it, use a paint-on, or would you send it out, to be tanned? Be honest!
     
  8. Me I'd freeze the skin and send it to your tannery and pay all the fleshing fees, I wouldn't want to touch it. :)
     
  9. whoever does it better have some kind of insurance behind it as NOTHING is guarenteed....i never KT anything bigger than elk capes and full sized exotics would go to a tannery
     
  10. HiTines

    HiTines New Member

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    Ok, Say you skin out a deer head. Then fleshed and salted. Then pickled, shaved and neutralized. After all that you use KT or Liqua-tan. How could you end up with a deer mount that wouldn't last if followed the corredt steps first. I could see it if you skipped the salt or pickle. Hell most of you guys have more experience than me but I use Liqua-tan after its salted, pickled and shaved. Are you saying my stuff won't last?
     
  11. Rhino

    Rhino Too many irons in the fire will put the fire out!

    Hitines, you didnt answer the question? Answer mine, and I will answer yours.
     
  12. coon hunter

    coon hunter Truman Waddell 270-589-7828 Brownsville Ky

    He!! fire . If there wad such a thing as diarrhea of the fingers half of you would poop your self to death . If the tanners aren't on here raising he!! with the guys That ask Questions about Krow Tan or others There posting things on here to get the other guys raising hell with them . I say Take a pi$$ on it . the acidity and the salt in it should be sufficient enough to tan it LOL
     
  13. George

    George The older I get, the better I was.

    Tom, I just don't think I'm that much different from most people from my generation. We seldom did things without understanding them simply because those who taught us wouldn't allow it. Tanning isn't that difficult to understand with ANY education in biology or chemisty (both of which were requires courses when I attended school). And I guess I missed your point in jabbing JRTS while you are only doing the other half of the process yourself. I assure you that my hides are as close to being tanned as anything you'd ever use. The pH of MY acid is 4.5 while yours is a bit lower. To a skin, acid is acid. When I cut a properly treated hide, the cut test reveals complete penetration of the chemical (as should yours), so I'm hardly putting a raw hide on a form any more than you are.

    Aubrey's question begs for an answer. I've seen the same posts on here from guys hometanning desert bighorn sheep. Just to think of handling a hide worth from $25,000 to $50,000 in shop is chilling and all it will take is just ONE of them being lost to destroy an individual. How many of us could afford to replace a kudu or sable, brown bear or ibex, or even a caribou or moose hide without some impact. The same goes for doing black bears in shop. And yet when I see these posts and advise them to send them out, some wetnosed jarhead is going to tell him, "KROTANN IT AND SAVE YOURSELF SOME MONEY." That's not only ignorant, that's irresponsible.
     
  14. Rhino

    Rhino Too many irons in the fire will put the fire out!

    Coonhunter, I think you got a buzz, cuzz? LOL Forget who tans with what, just answer the question.
     
  15. scpol

    scpol Wholesale Bird Taxidermy....Fan of Mike & Harry

    I would not do it here..
     
  16. George

    George The older I get, the better I was.

    Rick Carter told me one of the funniest (afterwards of course) stories I've ever heard about "home tanning". He had a tiger to do and decided to do it "in house". We all know that gnawing feeling that something may be wrong and he related a deathly fear of opening the drum and finding all the hair floating on top with a piece of "tiger leather" at the bottom of the vat. I'm not sure some of these guys are smart enough to have such worries.
     
  17. coon hunter

    coon hunter Truman Waddell 270-589-7828 Brownsville Ky

    It just tickles me the way people fight on here about different ways to preserve things . I use DP on birds I use a borax and dawn solution on all My fish I use KT on animals up to deer size but if it got much bigger I would most likely send it off as I do not have the means to do it here . No dis respect to no one . I'm just not on here playing 20 questions about something with the directions on the bottle and if I need to send something off I know how to look up a address and a phone number .

    Peace

    Truman
     
  18. Heath Cline

    Heath Cline Well-Known Member

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    OS, I will play. If it was a shoulder mount, I would do it in house. But the Desert Sheep I have done are all Lifesize & I send them out.
     
  19. mk

    mk -30 below

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    Look, If taxidermists had their prices up to begin with then they might be able to afford the tanning costs, lol, most are so low priced that they can't afford to send their capes out to be tanned. sad but true. this i believe what maybe 50% of taxidermists are doing the other 25% send out as they can afford it, etc and the other 25% could afford the costs also but choose to do it in-house as they are in control of it.
     
  20. TD

    TD My GGG Grandfather John "Tanner John" King b 1820

    To be totally honest with you OS.............
    A Specimen of that magnitude...........I personally would turn it,salt it and send it to YOU..............
    I would be dam sure that the client signs a contract "NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR INCIDENTS CAUSED BY AUBREY THE TANNER" and send it to you ...........That way he will be mad at YOU and not me when it slips lol........