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thinning acylics with what?

Discussion in 'Fish Taxidermy' started by meopilite, Mar 17, 2010.

  1. meopilite

    meopilite New Member

    526
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    MN
    Ive heard of thinning acylics with alcohol, but seems like alcohol doesnt mix with the paint worth a darn. Ive heard of using windex, but windex is blue. doesnt work very well with clear or white paint. What else is ther to thin with? plain water? Ive been just using retarder.
     
  2. Jon S

    Jon S Well-Known Member

    Mostly water and a little retarder.
    Alcohol is an accelerator and you probably don't want that. Windex is a cleaner; I'd be afraid of what it would do to the integrity of the paint.
     

  3. BVanKirk

    BVanKirk package deal

    acrylics are polymer based not alchol based soooo that wont work

    any polymer based extender (retarder, matte medium, ect) and/or water
     
  4. JE

    JE Well-Known Member

    Most brands of Acyclic paints supply accompanying mediums, I would stick to what they recommend.
     
  5. Manny

    Manny New Member

    Use winshield washing fluid from any gas station..

    Dont worry about the blue color it disapears, you can use with white all day. Its a thinner and retarder ;D
     
  6. Acrylics can be water based or laquer based.Which are you useing??I use wb acrylics mostly and thin/ clean up with de-natured alchohol(works just fine).The few colors I use in laquer(cant get them in wb),I thin/clean up with laquer thiner.
     
  7. George

    George The older I get, the better I was.

    Ed, where did you come up with that? I've never heard of a lacquer based acrylic (it's impossible chemically). Perhaps "alkyd enamel"??? Windshield washer fluid is NOT a good idea either. It is alcohol based and will disperse the concentrations of color particles in the binder. Listen to what Bailey is trying to tell you. This is HER world of expertise and she would never lead you astray.
     
  8. naturalcreati40

    naturalcreati40 Active Member

    1,050
    2
    I was wondering that myself George??
     
  9. There are some composite paints on the market now that are a bizarre blend of acrylic with lacquer and even enamel based solvents to act as a vehicle. Do a search for Lacquer based or enamel based acrylics and you can learn what each type of paint is used for. Mainly Car or aircraft paint.
    Though the majority are purely waterbased. Each type has a different function and and is was designed rather specifically for that use.
    I use artist acrylic paints (the type in tubes) those are nearly all waterbased you can order tubes of Lacquer based acrylic but they are expensive and used mainly in automotive and aircraft detailing.

    As for thinning I would stay away from any cleaning product since they often contain soaps and oils. these oils are added to alter the surface tension and create a film in the surface of glasses that will repel water.
    90% of my time I will thin my acrylics with water. There are occasions when I want to alter the way the paint behaves (Thick lumpy paint, or I choose to alter the surface tension) At these times I will add a bit of denatured Alcohol. They alchohol will effectively thin the paint and reduse the surface tension this cutting back on the "beading" you may get when applying thin washes. It evaporates quickly leaving the paint behind without effecting the paint quality. Most Extenders for acrylic paints on the market contain alcohol along with the root mediums of the paint being "thinned" to thin the paint for you.

    I would really stay away from cleaners however.
     
  10. BVanKirk

    BVanKirk package deal

    lol josh i knew someone would mention the weirdo hybrids


    stick to the basics, they work
     
  11. I agree the hybrid stuff is not good for any type of blending or detail painting.
    I do know alot of these are available as an airbrush paint though. I couldn't use it though, it would drive me nuts, at least on a fish. I used them alot for a few years when I was painting and detailing airplanes. *Shudder*
     
  12. George, I hate do disagree with you and or Baily,But, I believe Josh Made my point,tyvm.
     
  13. LionHeart

    LionHeart New Member

    I think he ment acrylic laquer which is widely used in auto industry and for wood working finish.

    Water based acrylic lacquer composition

    An aqueous dispersion lacquer composition of a binder in an aqueous medium; the binder is comprised of
    (1) a dispersed Polymer A of methyl methacrylate that can contain small amounts of adhesion promoting monomers such as diethyl amino ethyl methacrylate and other monomers that lower the glass transition temperature of the poolmer such as butyl methacrylate or butyl acrylate;

    (2) a dispersant Polymer B of methyl methacrylate, optionally, styrene, an alkyl acrylate or an alkyl methacrylate and an ethylenically unsaturated carboxylic acid; and

    (3) a graft copolymer of the dispersed Polymer A and the dispersant Polymer B; and

    The composition contains sufficient base such as amine or ammonium hydroxide to provide a pH of about 7-9 and usually contains conventional plasticizers, pigments and other additives as are used in aqueous coating compositions.

    The composition is used an an exterior finish for automobile and truck bodies.


    http://www.freepatentsonline.com/4255308.html
    http://www.tcpglobal.com/restorationshop/rspaclac.aspx
    http://www.finewoodworking.com/Materials/MaterialsAllAbout.aspx?id=2948
     
  14. Pescado

    Pescado Biggest in 2011

    Acrylic lacquer is nothing new. Here is a can I started with back in the late 80's. It is lacquer at it's finest, no hybrid or other.

    Paul B
     

    Attached Files:

  15. Paul,I hope you use a good respirator w/ that.Did you ever work w/ Imron,by Dupont?Even w/ a good respirator that stuff after 3-4 hrs of spraying would give you a severe case of the wobbles.LOL
     
  16. George

    George The older I get, the better I was.

    I stand corrected on a technocality then. I don't use autobody paints for taxidermy. The "technocality' is that "acrylic lacquer" is LACQUER with suspended acrylic particles. ACRYLIC PAINT, however,is and acrylic polymer emulsion liquid that is water soluble and has the color particles suspended in the aqueous solution. (That's why when your acrylic paint freezes, the water is forced from being a "binder" and the suspension is release leaving paint on the bottom of the bottle and water on top.

    "Acrylic paint is fast-drying paint containing pigment suspended in an acrylic polymer emulsion. Acrylic paints can be diluted with water, but become water-resistant when dry. Depending on how much the paint is diluted (with water) or modified with acrylic gels, media, or pastes, the finished acrylic painting can resemble a watercolor or an oil painting, or have its own unique characteristics not attainable with other media."
     
  17. Oh good lord must EVERYTHING be turned into a Pissing match on this forum?
    ::)
    LOL
     
  18. Harum

    Harum Active Member

    Hack crack head that recently fell off an onion truck with the inability to comprehend the English language that whines while blowing roses up peoples butts and likes to stir defecation while grinding an axe here ;)

    For years I used acrylic tube paint and always thinned them with water. When I started using Poly water based, I also thinned with water and had decent results. At the 07 World show I was talking with a fellow taxidermist about spots and other difficulties with this new to me paint. He mentioned adding not only retarder but rubbing alcohol to the Poly paint. Worked great. I use a bit of water at times or a bit of rubbing alcohol. Each gives a slightly different effect (for the very reasons Josh explained) but if your planning on using retarder in Poly paint the alcohol is a much better choice. I also happen to know a couple fish heads that use Windex and I'm pretty sure you wouldn't question their end result. One word of caution though, rubbing alcohol is a very effective stripper for Poly water based paint (when the paint is dry). Also a layer of the water based poly gloss works as an effective barrier to the alcohol (when dry).

    George I'm curious , Why would you attempt to tell strange fish head PAINTERS how to paint?

    In short Josh, Yes I suppose so… It is entertaining though.

    -Pete (or the above description)
     
  19. Jeff Lumsden

    Jeff Lumsden Well-Known Member

    I've used distilled water and ultimate retarder since last year, and I've never been more pleased!

    "Hack crack head that recently fell off an onion truck with the inability to comprehend the English language that whines while blowing roses up peoples butts and likes to stir defecation while grinding an axe here!"

    George, George, George :-[
     
  20. George

    George The older I get, the better I was.

    Harem, have you met the skull guys? You need to as you're almost as smart as they are. The QUESTION was "thinning acrylics with what?" (I know, you missed that didn't you). Bailey gave the correct answer and immediately it became a pissing contest because YOU like the boneheads don't understand basic chemistry. Now if you're satisfied with being ignorant, far be it form me to try and change YOU, but the beginners on here need to understand a few things. Did you ever wonder why lacquer thinner would remove acrylic paint but water wouldn't after it dried? I won't bore you with education, however. So flame on. Just remember that 99% of taxidermy work in America and likely the world is NOT done by specialists. So how many lifesize nyala have YOU mounted?