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trading birds

Discussion in 'Bird Taxidermy' started by bpbigperm, Mar 17, 2010.

  1. I have a question about gifting ducks. Bob Jungman was nice enough to help me out and gift me a duck so that I could practice and get more experience. He mentioned that in Central California we get full plume late season birds that others only see on the way to California. The point being that in central Cali the January spoonies and cinnamon teal really look good. So do the more common ones, but they are more common. so the question is

    Would it be legal to keep some birds that are in good taxidermy condition next season from here, and trade them with people that get migratory ducks in their area that we don't where I live? (like sea ducks, blue wing teal, etc..)

    No money would pass hands, just pay to ship the bird you are sending. The purpose of this would be to be able to have the chance to mount ducks that people don't have the opportunity to go hunt. I would love to do a cinn, bw teal, and spoonie mount. but we don't get bw teal here. I have never even seen a sea duck alive or mounted in person.
     
  2. cooper669

    cooper669 New Member

    The wording in the regs say "sell, barter or trade". I would advise against using any of this terminology. You could "gift" him ducks and he could "gift" you ducks but I wouldn't trade.
     

  3. The regs say that you can't trade. I wonder if he paid for you to ship your to him and you paid for him to ship his to you maybe it would be ok? Only way to find out would be to try contacting someone at the head of the FWS to try and figure something out. Personally, I'd wait a while between sending out yours and having them send yours out so there is no way they are connected. Things always need to be difficult huh?
     
  4. smalliestalker

    smalliestalker and a river runs through it.

    And of course, you'd have to keep your possession limit in mind.
     
  5. you can gift him one. then hey maybe nexy week he has one that he's willing to gift and what do you know, yuou can recieve that gift! lol just dont say its a "trade"
     
  6. ya that possesion limit is a buggar too. 14 ducks for the entire season in Cali. So if you skin out the bird, all of the meat, is it still a bird? I don't think there is a limit on carcasses.
     
  7. Lisa M

    Lisa M Swing like no one is watching...lol

    This is very murky water. Even if you contact your local game wardens you'll get different answers from different ones. Very frustrating. I understand the need to protect the birds from poaching/whatever. But can't they just let people do what's right because it's right without having to worry about anyone busting down their door over a duck? Sigh.
     
  8. Smeja

    Smeja New Member

    i've called fish and game on more then one occasion to ask if its skinned does it still count as your possesion limit and if so then at one point does the bird NOT count. they said somewhere in the regs it says ''and parts thereof'' I said well what the hell does that mean? he said if you have 14 wings from ducks (trainning your dog lets say) then your at your current limit, i asked what about when they dry out they no different then using your mount to train your dog which would be legal if you so choose, he said he didnt know. i said so if thats the case what about my 7 mounted green heads, am i over my possesion limit if i get 8 more (double the daily bag limit in ca is 14) they both said they dont really know...

    i dont mind skinning out the bird throughing some borax on them and freezing them till i'm ready to mount. but i dont think that will work with some wardens.

    on the other hand what if i have a mount i want to remount. So if i soak it in salt water undo the stitches and want to freeze it till i'm ready to mount it would that be legal? or once it hits the freezer is it again parts there of.

    cause if that was ok if that was the case you could just skin all your birds out then label them ''remount'' and freeze them in a block of ice till your ready to mount them. nobody could ever prove or know the difference otherwise.

    i've asked 3 wardens these questions. all did not know what the clear answer was.
     
  9. RoyalOaksRanch

    RoyalOaksRanch Royal Oaks Taxidermy- When Quality Counts...

    Keep good records with even your mounted ducks.. If there is ever any question it will be assumed its current year. so if you have 30 ducks mounted over the last few years but no proof when you shot/acquired them then you technically could be over your limit as it would be evidence of it being killled aka part of your limit.

    Calif laws are skrewy at best. If in doubt always call your local warden. Since he/she is the one who covers your area make sure you abide by his/her interpretation.

    All it takes is one screw up to cost you big time.. Better safe than sorry..
     
  10. So if you skin out a bird, borax it, and put it in the freezer, does the meat now count as another bird?

    So if I keep the meat does that mean one bird now became 2. In an attempt to save skins to try and accumulate the best quality birds for mounting during a season you could in fact make matters worse. I dont know if that pintail I shoot in December is going to be my last one of the year, but if I know I want to mount one I would keep the bird in best shape until then. It sure would be nice to get some clarification in the regs for this. I dont see that happening, but a fat kid can dream.
     
  11. some ca regs I found regarding possesion limit. It does not really answer any questions.

    §251.7. Possession, Transportation and Importation of Game Birds.
    (a) No person may possess any birds taken in this state in excess of the daily bag and possession limits. The exception to this is for the purpose of transportation, cleaning, storage (including temporary storage), shipment, or taxidermy services, where an individual may possess game birds taken by another hunter provided that they are tagged by the hunter who has lawfully taken them. The tag must contain the hunter's name, address, hunting license number, kinds and numbers of game birds taken, date and location of kill, and signature.

    (b) All birds, including migratory game birds, possessed or transported within California must have a fully feathered wing or head attached until placed into a personal abode or commercial preservation facility or being prepared for immediate consumption. Doves must have a fully feathered wing attached.

    (c) Migratory game birds imported into California shall be accompanied by a declaration of entry as prescribed in Section 2353 of the Fish and Game Code.

    (d) Only one possession limit of migratory game birds may be possessed per individual after the close of the season for that species.


    I also sent an email to the dfg asking the questions raised here. My money is on that they discuss it amonst themselves ignore the email.
     
  12. here in minnesota i remember them changing the rule a few years ago on fish so that it said something like the fish is considered part of your possesion limit even if it is to be mounted and that it is until you get it back from the taxidermist. so what if i am the taxidermist??? some times i think these people really are clueless on some of these issues including the management of the deer herd, here in MN anyways..

    Cody
     
  13. fireduck

    fireduck Member

    306
    0
    so you cant have. lets say 12 birds in your name only for your self to mount for practice...
     
  14. I talked to a friend and he mentioned that any birds you have at the taxidermist count towards your twice the daily bag limit. He mounts birds as well and has been searchd by DFG twice in the past 10 years due to his taxidermy license. He said he buys his daughter a hunting license just so he can keep an additional 14 birds in the freezer.

    I recieved an email from DFG and athe woman replying said she had no clue as to the rules regarding when is a bird no longer a bird. She said she would get back to me in the next 2 weeks. Anything she sends I will post for you guys.
     
  15. Smeja

    Smeja New Member

    on the 3 occasions i talked to CA fish and game about this subject they all said ''just gift some to your wife you'll be fine.''
     
  16. mark11

    mark11 now accepting new wholesale clients

    the only thing i have never seen disputed state or federal is that once a bird is mounted it no longer counts as part of your possession limit and you can have as many mounted birds as you can find time or money to mount, until it is mounted there is no set rule written in stone as to what it is considered, i have even been told by one officer that if i skin a duck, remove the feet, remove the head and then bag them seperately and place them back into a freezer then each part thereof now counts as its own part of the possession limit so now a single dead bird has magically multiplied into four. wildlife laws are like gun laws, there are so many of them now nobody knows what they really are and there is no way we can avoid breaking them short of burning our guns and going out of business and never killing another animal.
     
  17. SteveP

    SteveP New Member

    It's the confusion of the laws that makes it even more important to stand your constitutional ground. That means only show them your books, unless they have a search warrant.
     
  18. George

    George The older I get, the better I was.

    Hear hear.

    Porter you must be referring to California law. Federal law prescribes that a skinned out bird no longer counts towards your possession limits. I'm ASSUMING that the meat would but as Steve relates, it will be a cold day in hell when an agent looks in my freezer without a warrant anyway - especially my HOME freezer.
     
  19. bowkill

    bowkill New Member

    I struggled with this with my fish and game locals here too and called a few local taxidermists and they said same thing as George, They will act like they don't need a warrant to look in your freezers to fish for a law that you or someone else broke. Don't let them,they do need a warrant. If they come in and ask about a specific person then they said its best to let them see there game to keep on good terms with them.

    I called fish and game got same response if you skinned and ate, or gifted, or for taxidermy purposes disposed of meat then they didn't count towards your possesion limit and another post came up like this and got me wondering so I called again they asked three game wardens got 1 i don't know, one yes, and one no so it depends on the warden that shows up at your house, and like earlier stated there are so many interpretations of the law that they will get you some way if they really want too.
     
  20. Ted

    Ted Member

    "Only one possession limit of migratory game birds may be possessed per individual after the close of the season for that species."

    Does that mean you can have 14 mallards and 14 gadwall and 20 teal etc? I thought it was one posseion limit of ducks.

    Also, I heard it was per person so you could have a limit for your wife EVEN IF SHE DIDN"T HAVE A LICENSE, but I don't think I would rely on that interpretation. But it definitely holds for your son that did have a license. Or you could get the license number of a friend and tag a possession limit for him.

    Finally, I heard what George did that once it is skinned it is not counted. And I will never let a game warden in my freezer. I can't count the times that I took the tag off a bird to wash the skin and forgot to put the tag back on when I returned it to the freezer.