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Stupid competition question???

Discussion in 'Deer and Gameheads' started by redog76, Mar 23, 2010.

  1. Bill Yox

    Bill Yox Well-Known Member

    We just use a much smaller ribbon and its "only" the commercial division, so to speak. You get guys who have supported your association in the past, but in any particular year simply cannot take the time to do a comp piece so its a nice way to keep them participating and a happy member. Anyone who has tried to run an association knows the importance of participation for the survival of these associations!

    To me, its the amateur division Id skip. A youth division covers the younger artist. Then why not just to the pro division, and get a good solid critique and face whats going to be a challenge for the rest of your competition career, to do a life like mount? I think the fact that separate judges often judge the amateurs bears this out to some extent. Im not dissing amateurs, we all started somewhere. But, the frying pan (the pro div) isnt that hot, before you jump into the fire (master div). ;D
  2. tim54

    tim54 New Member

    We all need to understand one thing when it comes to competition, when there is no more to LEARN its time to QUIT.I have been in the masters div. in or state for at least 6 years, i'am still learnning. thank you Bill for a great job of judging Michigan last week .

  3. George

    George The older I get, the better I was.

    Bill, you and Rick are missing the point completely. First off, it's NOT a waste of time nor money as every association that has one makes more money by having them than if the individual participating had not bothered to enter ANYTHING!. Secondly, as Bill stated earlier, it does draw two groups into the mix. The first group is that of the trepid who want to start without the worry of embarrassment. The second group is that of guys who know their work won't stand the test of competition, but still yearn to be able to advertise as having "award winning" in front of their names regardless if it's the county fair or a taxidermy show. (Did you two lose site of what REALLY drives ALL competitions??? EGO! EGO! EGO!)

    Most of you are too blind to see that even here, some of you are taking cheap shots and other taxidermists. Look back and tell me you didn't when you smear "amateur" and "commercial". Your own ego just won't let you pass, will it. LMAO.

    WITHIN our industry, we all know the rules and we all know the games (though many won't admit it), and we know that a "commercial" ribbon may or may not stand the test of true competition (I know one World Champion who refused to enter a piece in the Masters category at the WTC because of "issues", but did enter it into the open.) So get off your collective high horses. If your peers have judged you as being the "best" or even the "best of the best", to the world outside this industry, you're still an animal undertaker and won't get invited to any hoity toity parties. Get over yourselves. Because I've done some things outside the industry that few of you could ever imagine, do you see me flaunting it or telling anyone, "Well, if you can't shake hands with the President" you should stay out of D.C." (BTW, I never shook a President's hand so don't go there. It's an ANALOGY!) Just remember, YOU weren't always "great" and looking down your nose at someone tends to make you look at your own feet eventually.
  4. Bill Yox

    Bill Yox Well-Known Member

    Ummm...ok... Im not sure how Im missing the point. (now I am though! lol) You are agreeing with me. Im FOR the commercial division.
  5. Cole

    Cole Amateur Taxidermist

    Why do you always have to argue Bill? Can't you see the commercial division is good for shows? Just because it's not for everyone, doesn't mean it's bad. C'mon Bill, have an open mind!
  6. Rick Carter

    Rick Carter Administrator

  7. inkyspal

    inkyspal Member

    When I was in elementary school we always had field day each spring. In the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd grades I competed and won blue ribbons in several different events. Of course the teachers always pinned the ribbons right on our shirts! Those were proud moments - being able to walk among my peers, displaying my accomplishments. In the 4th grade, the school had the bright idea to give everyone at field day a blue ribbon…win or lose. It was a “participation ribbon”. I remember it very well. It completely sucked the wind from my competitive spirit and stole the significance of competing in the first place! Real competition - even losing - builds character, courage, and resilience. These are things that are vital in the real world.
  8. jim tucker

    jim tucker Active Member

    I am judging amateurs this year here and I agree. I always tell anyone that asks that if they are there to learn something then skip amateur and enter ther Pro. Amateur is for the guy that knows NOTHING. Mounts that would be fatal flawed should be there but nothing better IMO.

    Commercial division has it's place as well. The WHOLE point of the commercial division is to pull a customer piece off the shop wall and bring it to be looked at. It's a FOR FUN category. The mount is critiqued by 4/6 individuals and they come to a consenses and give their opinion of your everyday work. WHICH if truth be told MOST guys don't spend anywhere NEAR as much time on. In fact I have been SHOCKED by some of the commercial work I have seen going out of shops that regularly WIN in higher categories.

    As far as RANKING the levels it would be


    Commercial doesn't even come into play. It's a separate thing. In Ohio YOU decide what level you are at...and YOU are responsible for choosing the WRONG one...ha ha. The ONLY stipulation here is if you win 2 BOC in acategory you must move up to masters in that category.
  9. Well said.....and Rick if a picture is worth a 1000 words as they say that sums it up.
  10. Becky P

    Becky P One must believe the glass is half full.

    May depend on your show. In Texas amatuer is commercial - The Amateur Division is one step above the Educational Division. This competition is geared toward the commercial taxidermist and hobbyist wishing to have their work graded on a Commercial basis.
    IMO, it should be called "commercial" instead of "amateur". To me, commercial is completely different than amateur.
  11. Cole

    Cole Amateur Taxidermist

    That doesn't make sense to me. In our state, if you do taxidermy commercially, you are not allowed to compete in the lowest division (amateur). I don't know if I would scrap it like Bill suggests, to me it's another division designed to get people involved that may not have otherwise. I usually suggest to first time competitors to start at the pro level, but if they aren't comfortable with that then I'd rather they pay to enter an amateur mount than not participate at all.
  12. Bill Yox

    Bill Yox Well-Known Member

    I hear ya Rick. A blue is no longer a blue once anyone gets one just for being present with a valid pulse. Also, just to clarify...again...I didnt say to get rid of the amateur division. I simply said IF there was some paring and pruning to be done, that division could be absorbed by the pro division.
  13. jim tucker

    jim tucker Active Member

    I totally agree with you and I have this argument all the time with others. When you GIVE the awards away they don't mean much. That's why our awards are SIZE adjusted. The ribbons in the commercial division are small...the Masters are Huge. At least it's something.

    On the other hand shows need the entries to keep solvent.

    Put it another way...BOTH sides of the argument NEED each other if we want to continue having shows. In fact I may be entering a piece in commercial this year. Just haven't had the time to put together anything for competition.
  14. Cathy

    Cathy N.E.A.T President

    Boy, I was starting to feel bad cuz I'm entering in the commercial this year. Thanks Jim T, I feel better! I just didn't have any good specimens or the extra time for a pro or masters. I always considered it completely different than the other categories, and have only entered in it once before. Those of you who think it's an easy blue, I've been to a convention where the com. judge only gave a couple of blue ribbons. They can be tough, just like I've seen amature judges be as tough as the pro judge.
  15. I'm beginning to feel that I shold have entered my bird, fish and mammals into the pro even though it has been only the deer that I have done for customers. I am not looking for ribbons for the sake of saying that I am a "multiple award winner" I just felt that with so few mounts in those catagories under my belt I should enter the amatuer div. for maybe a better critique. Am I wrong to think that? What are everyone thoughts on that? Ben
  16. Cole

    Cole Amateur Taxidermist

    I would enter Pro, but do whatever you feel comfortable with.
  17. mt

    mt New Member

    I do know of a few taxidermists that did stay in the ammeter division simply to get the Blue Ribbon. And eventually were told by the Association that they need to move on , HA HA talk about EGOS. Still cracks me up when i think about it . MT
  18. Becky P

    Becky P One must believe the glass is half full.

    You should get a more thorough critique in pro. Be sure to go talk to the judge and have him/her give a verbal critique as well as the written.
  19. D.W.M.

    D.W.M. New Member

    Like Becky says you will get a better critque in pro. Last year I went Novice I wish I would have put it Pro because it probably would have pushed me farther along, and ask the judge questions. The whole ribbon thing I kinda look at it like karate its being judged in levels. As far as being the best mount in the show isn't that where the other awards in the show come in, Best in show, WASCO award and so on.
  20. redog76

    redog76 New Member

    Thanks for all the replies everyone!! I think im gonna put a couple deer in the pro and a few other customer pieces in the commercial at the WV show