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Krowtan study results...food for thought

Discussion in 'Tanning' started by Uncle Harley, Apr 15, 2010.

  1. Uncle Harley

    Uncle Harley New Member

    George, I believe he was talking about when using KT, I have stuck Hides in KT 30 min after the animal was shot and I have boughten salted hides that I had to re-hydrate prior to KT and the end result is the same.
     
  2. George

    George The older I get, the better I was.

    I figured that' what he intended, but we both know that there are those who visit here who can't even read and follow the directions on the Krowtann. Seeing that type statement is rife with issues for those type people. And when you think about it, do the people who use Krowtann refuse to accept customers who bring hides in from Alaska and Canada that have been split and salted already. I've seen at least one guy on here doing African stuff with Krowtann and I KNOW he gets it in salt dried. If salting was a waste of time, at what point is that hide usable to a Krowtann user?
     

  3. TD

    TD My GGG Grandfather John "Tanner John" King b 1820

    Your putting more into it George. ::) ::) ::)
    I do plenty of salted capes My self.........
    Salting is a necessity for rug making but for Taxidermy mounting purposes, it IS a waste of time in the shop ;D............
    It is not a waste of time if they are salted in the field to preserve them until they get to the Taxidermist or to get to the shop........or even to send through the mail..............that's a whole different situation that your adding to My statement :( ........
    I was referring to the in shop user of KT (or most other tanns including for that matter) and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out what I meant ::) lol..........
    Many people call Me , because unlike you, I cant explain certain situations very well in text but I can verbally............
    I know what the problem most likely was and I have written that on the Net before in the past (I believe I got a smart a$$ remark from you in fact lol) but No one payed attention to it..........so.........I'm sure I can help Antler man out when He calls...........
     
  4. George

    George The older I get, the better I was.

    Tom, no smart ass this time. Do you simply rehydrate the hide as you usually do and just drop it into the Krowtann? I'm ASSUMING the salt doesn't effect the final outcome doing it that way???
     
  5. Joe Winsor

    Joe Winsor Active Member

    4,519
    2
    Tom, assuming one was to salt a hide prior to Krowtanning, regardless of when and where, wouldn't the Krowtann have a easier time working after the salt had removed all the junk liquid from the hide? Isn't that logical?
     
  6. TD

    TD My GGG Grandfather John "Tanner John" King b 1820

    I do rehydrate the salted capes in a brine water and they need to be completely relaxed for good results just like other tanns............
    The only thing I notice about capes that have been salt dried for an extended amount of time is that I don't seem to get as good of a stretch............
    I can tell a difference when I mount a cape that has been completely salt dried compaired to one that was not salted at all.........but not the ones that were salted and not dried hard...........

    Maybe........................
    If someone wants to take the time to salt then that's just a +........but to me its not needed because I still get the same results in the end..........
    ..........Also it might be a bit harder to get that neck size back , especially for a beginner.............
     
  7. Uncle Harley

    Uncle Harley New Member


    That would be logical for a standard pickle to help keep the ph down because as George and I have discussed in a regular pickle if the pH got to a 3.5 or 4 you would be freaking out worring about losing hair. It isn't the case with KT You want it to get to that point so the " suspended tanning agents" can then bond. As far as my results using a salt dried hide with KT my results are exactly like Tom's Rehydrate in a salt brine and I like to add Kemal 4 untill it it completly re-hydrated . The final product is the same, but a hide that has been salt dried it is a lot harder to get the stretch back, it can be done, just take more effort. On fresh hide that goes into it I don't even have to stretch by hand I slip the cape over the agitator in my washing machine when I spin them dry the centrifical force does all the stretching I need.
     
  8. Uncle Harley

    Uncle Harley New Member

    I will add that the only time I salt a hide that is going into KT is when I don't have time to let a frozen green cape thaw at room temp ( some times it will take up to 24 hrs in my shop) so I soak it in a bucket of room temp water for a few hrs at that time it is thawed I spin out as much water as I can and then will rub salt into it and hang it up for about 1 hr as I don't like trying to split turn and flesh a soaking wet skin. Once I get get it ready to stick in the KT I put it in the sink with some kemal 4 and wash it out skin and hair side real good ( I do this on all hides ) and straight into the Kt it goes.
     
  9. TD

    TD My GGG Grandfather John "Tanner John" King b 1820

    When I use to liqua tan with a Formic acid bath...........i stopped the salting then too .............that was years ago............I always kept My PH where it needed to be (and sometimes that was a hassle)..........but like the KT , I got better stretch on My capes........before I stopped salting I had consulted with Bruce Rittel............I would run batches of 10 capes per container............but the formic acid was never as reliable and stable as KT...........That goes for Oxalic acid as well(WASCO acid bath crystals)...........
     
  10. michael p.

    michael p. Getting better with age :)



    Damn, now i'm even confused! ;D LOL
     
  11. TD

    TD My GGG Grandfather John "Tanner John" King b 1820

    Even I can play the words MP ............What are you, a Lawyer or a Taxidermist? ;D LOL
     
  12. Cole

    Cole Amateur Taxidermist

    This is the part that confused me, but I didn't care to read a response equally as confusing, so I held my tongue.
     
  13. michael p.

    michael p. Getting better with age :)

    A realist
     
  14. Uncle Harley

    Uncle Harley New Member


    I am finding the same results Cole, If a hide is salted hard, rehydrated and stuck in KT it takes ALOT more effort to get the stretch you need to get the skin back to it's normal size, If you follow the instructions and don't salt on the hide it virtually takes no effort to get the stretch you need.
     
  15. TD

    TD My GGG Grandfather John "Tanner John" King b 1820

    Well then , If that was the case then you would have understood exactly what I meant.
    You only quoted part of My sentences and lost the meaning .......... A realist would leave it the way it IS and not change it to what it is NOT. ::) lol
     
  16. RICKP

    RICKP Let'er Buck

    OK salting a hide, nobody will say that's a bad thing, as George say's "time tested"..
    KT - (per directions) no salt needed before going in the mix. OK, that works and gets a stretch.
    Harley said he salted a hide before the KT because of the way he needed to thaw the hide, he didn't want to mess with a sloppy cape. (understandable) He rinsed the cape again before going in the KT. Back to normal directions you'd think..

    Alright, question -
    If a salt dried cape goes in the KT it will absorb more but are you not getting the stretch do to all the extra salt in the mix or the increased amount of KT that is introduced into the hide now? Reality is, you have more salt and less water working in the hide now..

    Just a thought...
     
  17. TD

    TD My GGG Grandfather John "Tanner John" King b 1820

    Darn it Cole .....if your going to quote at least quote it all........You and MP are like two peas in a pod lol.........
     
  18. michael p.

    michael p. Getting better with age :)

    Oh, now you've lowered yourself to insulting Cole!! ;) :D ;D LOL
     
  19. Uncle Harley

    Uncle Harley New Member

    I don't think that is the issue, for 2 reasons A. you re-hydrate a salted hide before you put in KT just like with any other home tan. And B: I use the ammount of salt per the instructions and I have never got 100% of the salt to disolve even at 90+ deg water there is always a little in the bottom
     
  20. TD

    TD My GGG Grandfather John "Tanner John" King b 1820

    Even when all the salt does not dissolve I always get 60% density...............and That's more than adequate.