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LA Blue Ribbon Winner: Did He Cheat?

Discussion in 'The Taxidermy Industry' started by Doug Bridges, Apr 23, 2010.

  1. Not the same fish

    47 vote(s)
    20.3%
  2. Maybe the same fish

    14 vote(s)
    6.1%
  3. It is the same fish, I think

    35 vote(s)
    15.2%
  4. Cheater, Cheater pants on the ground!

    135 vote(s)
    58.4%
  1. Huntress

    Huntress Member

    155
    0
    I would like to know how the 9 inch fish and the 12 inch fish got the same exact markings. How were the markings not only copied but reduced to fit the smaller fish??
     
  2. If you scale the original fish that Randy showed in the For Sale ad, using the rosette on the ribbon you will find this. The ribbon is 5" diameter. If you use that as a base measurement, you will find that the fish shown in Randy's for sale add scales up to, get this, 9.5". Imagine that. 9.5 inches by scaling and James shows the fish he put on display is 9.5".

    Same fish James. So drop the measurement lie!

    Randy, can you pull a measurement off of your original mold to put this measurement lie to rest?
     

  3. coonhollow

    coonhollow Active Member

    what would possess someone to cheat! Time to man up and give concrete proof or eat crow on here!
     
  4. WNWA

    WNWA New Member

    278
    0
    it looks and sounds like memorex, you know the comercial with ela fitsgerald,
    you couldnt tell the diference, thats what we got here......
     
  5. Silverose01

    Silverose01 Proud member of LTBBOI

    Wow so much cheating and lies :(
     
  6. Monty Artrip

    Monty Artrip Active Member

    1,665
    1
    I have competed with only fish for years and taken many of the top awards out there. As someone already pointed out you would use reference photos etc. to paint your fish, not someone elses interpretation (although Randy's interpretation is awesome!!). It would also be practically impossible to duplicate the markings to the extent that this fish appears, especially so when going to a smaller fish. Like most folks on here, I am not buying it.
     
  7. jtcjr

    jtcjr Member

    910
    0
    NC
    All you need to look at to know he cheated is to look at how different the pumpkinseed looks. Pumpkinseed is no where near the quality paint job as the crappie.
     
  8. murph

    murph Member

    I couldn't imagine ever trying some bull like that ..... And to think you got to live with that on your mind.... how Low ! so very low!
    Wonder how he even sleeps at night!
     
  9. LTravis

    LTravis New Member

    Well Randy was your crappie 12 inches???? There is a huge difference between a 12 inch crappie and a 9 1/2....

    and I also agree why not just take a picture of both crappie together...
     
  10. coonhunt

    coonhunt New Member

    387
    1
    looks like the same to me all the markings are the same, that and I cant see why someone would cheat on something like that..
     
  11. Here you go LTravis......... ::) I know one thing that if my reputation was at stake I would drive the 100 miles in a heart beat to take a picture of both fish together. Hell I would drive a 1000 miles.
     

    Attached Files:

  12. mike g

    mike g Active Member

    I am pretty sure some type of cheating is at every show. It's all about the awards any more and what ever it takes to get them. The number of taxidermist that go to the show and compete on a honest level out way the cheaters by a great deal so don't ever let that keep you from going to the shows.
     
  13. A bill is 6 inches long so it looks like your mold is of a 12 inch crappie. I guess that answered the question.

    Bruce
     
  14. Where did you get this info from? I'm serious, I would like to know.

    It's good we have a site like this to catch these thieves. I personally think every show should post pics of all the mounts with names that are entered in Pro on up on their site, or this one. It would eliminate any temptation from the cheaters.IMO
     
  15. mike g

    mike g Active Member

    Cheating comes in all forms, whether it is having something as simple as having your buddy set your eyes all the way to buying a mount and entering it. It happens and if you think it don't you have your head in the sand, this post is just one example of winning at all costs. You can't patrol it and you can't control it, you have to take faith that taxidermist follow the rules applied. Like I said in my above post you can not keep that from you going to shows.

    Do the work yourself from start to finish and be proud of what you have done whether you win or lose.
     
  16. Kerby Ross

    Kerby Ross KSU - Class of '83; U.S. Army - Infantry (83-92)

    Depending upon.....

    Depending upon where you measure the end of the fin...... I bill is 6 2/16 inches, that makes the crappie about 11 1/4 inches.


    Kerby...
     
  17. Wildside

    Wildside Active Member

    Did you pinch the tail?
     
  18. Mr.T

    Mr.T Active Member

    Could someone take a side photo of a 12" fish, downsize the photo by 25% and print the photo of the fish on clear or transparent mylar, then lay it over a 9" fish, and transfer the template onto the fish by air brush, using the mylar template to duplicate a configuration?
     
  19. I was planning on staying away from this but after seeing the mold its painfully clear.
    Its the same stinking fish!

    Issue 1
    If you figure in where the caudal fin ends on the mold, and assume a fraction of that fin was trimmed off in the thinning and "Fraying" process when chasing the mold. the bill size matches perfectly.
    To top that off I have seen some higher resolution pictures of each fish and the cheek scales match 100% No doubt ZERO it is the same fish.
    You can copy a paint pattern if you are good enough and spend enough time doing so, BUT matching and sculpting the cheek scales to match 100% is a harder job. Again it could be done with enough time, but WHY?
    Cheek scales are like finger prints no two are the same.

    Issue number 2
    If you have the skill to copy something so precisely WHY? would you copy someone elses fish and not a REAL fish.

    Issue number 3
    The skill level in the crappie and pumpkinseed dont match at all.

    Now as for the size of the fish??? Dont know and dont care.
    It seems the molded fish is around 11" but it does depend on if it was measured flat and fresh or mounted. I measure my blanks flat and fresh since that is how fishermen "Should" Be measuring their fish.
    So often the casts seem slightly smaller then the live length due to curvature.

    All this seems so pointless.
    On another forum he stated he didnt stick around to have "professional photos" taken at the LA show because he was in a hurry.
    Seems convenient to me as an outsider.

    So we have two real options.

    1. He is the one of the best artists in both painting and sculpture the taxidermy world has ever seen.

    2. He purchased the finished fish and rebased it and entered it.

    This is what we have as evidence and defense

    Evidence.
    a. Bill size nearly Identical on both the mold and mount.
    b. Identical fish was purchased a few months earlier.
    c. That fish has since been sold again and is no longer in his posession.
    d. Both fish have identical paint and patterns. not one spot is off.
    e. Both fish have identical scales and fins (Including the individually unique cheek scales)
    f. The fish was not professionally photographed at the LA show leaving no photographic proof to the LA state association.

    Defense.
    a. Fish is not the same size.
    b. Fish paint pattern was copied.
    c. Claims it was privately molded.

    What would stop this debate?
    a. Higher resolution photos of both fish.
    b. A photo of both fish side by side.
    c. A photo of the mold of the fish in the LA show.

    Higher rez photos could be provided by both parties (Although I have seen some on the MT site and elsewhere)
    A photo of the two side by side cant be provided because the other fish is no longer in either parties possession.
    A photo of the mold could be provided (unless it was disposed of due to breakage)

    Without any of these I have to assume it is the same fish.
    and I have to say the whole thing makes me nauseous. What a slap in the face for honest competitors and really a slap for those who competed against this piece.
     
  20. I'm not a fish guy at all. But it seems like Randy's mold is about 12 inches long and the fish in question is around 9 inches. I don't see how they could be the same fish. I do agree the painting is identical.

    Bruce