Annual DNR check (2 1/2 hours)

S.I. then I guess you need to go to Georgia to find a good lawyer. The ACLU is right there if you can prove that you were imprisoned under false pretenses. What is wrong with you people? It's no wonder we don't have any rights. We keep giving them away.

Sarah, no one has any right to inspect ANY freezer you own without a warrant. The Showers case doesn't leave any room for silly AAWS interpretations. If you read it, you will notice that his local and state officials did exactly what S.I. claims to have happened to him. It was when he got to the Federal courts that all hell broke loose and the state of Pennsylvania had to pay a pretty penny because of it. I know they can't punch ballots in Florida or find the proper polls to vote at, but the rest of the world ain't like Florida. The precedence has already been set and MOST Federal Appeals Courts are not going to overrule one another. If they do, the case has to go to the US Supreme Court and it seems only the 9th District Court in California is stupid enough to make that practice habitual.

 

C'mon folks lets all admit it, what happened to SI Steele is in actuality what really does occur when you stand up for your "rights". the bottom line is that the perception or interpretation of what the officer hears or sees takes precedence. They cant stand it when common tax paying citizens know or impose their rights. The judicial system was inacted for the benefit of the attorneys and their subordinates. When you try and enforce your god given rights in this country you end up getting pinched or harrassed even more. They think you have something to hide or you have an attitude problem.

In the case of trophy if he had tried to enforce his supposed rights during the inspection then the DNR rep or other authority figure would have kept coming back with or without warrants, which equates to more harrassment regarding the issue at hand. Or in many cases getting pinched for something else not even related. It is all in the authority figures perception of the situation. So you are foolin yourself if you think otherwise. The ridiculous thing here is that SI Steele even had to hire an attorney to prove his innocence. How is that justice. If you want proof look at many other issues not related to this forum. Hunting laws in some states are so ridiculous and full of loopholes and they benefit of the legal system. What constitutes baiting of waterfowl, what constitutes shooting from a boat to retrieve crippled birds v.s. wanton waste. Some states have rules that state you can shoot another human being or livestock and lose your license for only 3 years yet if you have 3 lesser citations in a 10 year period your license revocation is 2 years. So let me get this straight if I get 3 tickets in 10 years for what a game warden perceives as a violation on whatever the case maybe, plug out of the gun, shooting with lead, etc etc then my license is revoked for 2 years; yet I can shoot another human being or livestock and my license is only taken for 3 years?????? Not in the case with Dick Cheney however he got pinched for a wopping $5 fine. high profile guy huh = his rights were observed obviously. You, me or any other common citizen would be doing jail time and in the case of some states only lose our license for 3 years. I wonder if Cheney got his revoked????

 

Although I haven't read all six pages of this post I would like to share my input in this topic. I must say I see all sides of the issue and can assure you I am not taking any one side. I can even see understand a portion of the DNR Officer's side, even though I'm sure you will not see his post here. I am a Police Officer (eighteen years), and a taxidermist for thirteen years. Even my taxidermy business keeps me busy to the point I feel it is full time as well.

In Law Enforcement the terms "reasonable", and "unreasonable", are terms used in our profession. It is associated with law obviously and is something we become familiar with. Now what is "reasonable" and "unreasonable" mean. Everyone has their own opinion what they mean and this is what more than often strikes controversy. Now I must admit by some of the things mentioned her maybe there are some things happening that may be deemed "unreasonable", such as stopping by a place of business at 9:30p.m. for an inspection. (I will get to the point in just a bit so bare with me). But first let me use this example.

In the case of obtaining a drivers license. Some feel it is a right to be able to drive when in fact it is a privilege. When a person signs the dotted line in the issuing state that person is saying they will abide by the laws in that state, or any other state, or they driving "privileges" may be suspended or revoked. If I arrest someone for Driving Under the Influence and they fail, or fail to submit, requested chemical testing then my state will suspend their driving privileges for voiding their contract.

How does this relate to taxidermy? As someone mentioned when we sign for our license we are signing a contract and the state will issue us a license to provide taxidermy services. State statue dictates what a DNR officer can, cannot do. This is where the warrantless searches issues would be covered. In know in my state is says a DNR officer can search my business, including freezers, where I conduct my business. If that's in my house, that's includes my house. If I revoke that consent then the state can revoke, or suspend my license, and turn around and obtain a search warrant anyway. Now as I said some of the things DNR officers are doing mentioned here sounds a little fishy, LOL! If you're not doing anything illegal then why worry about it. I am fortunate to have a good working relationship with my DNR officer at work and in the taxidermy business. I have spoken with area taxidermist and they too get the same inspection as I. Is 2 1/2 hours unreasonable. If you have a full blown taxidermy business with several mounts it may take an officer that kind of time to conduct what they feel is a thorough inspection. Nothing is to say they can't inspect every species you have in a freezer. Hopefully most will not and I feel for those that have to go through such an inspection and I hope I never have to submit to such. But to tell a DNR officer when he hits the door he not allowed anywhere past the counter I must say may be a little "unreasonable" and I will guarantee will do nothing but throw up a bunch of red flags to them.

So in closing I hope I didn't rattle a bunch of chains. I just feel with my background I could shed a little light!

 

Bald Rock, I guess it's your generations acceptance of that sort of trash that creates it's continuation. It still amounts to how much your personal principles are worth. I will NOT cede to someone simply because of the pants he wears. You'd simply be amazed at the power the spoken and written words have if an individual has balls enough to use them instead of folding his cards and going home.

I hate to categorize, but the average cop isn't as much shaper than the average high school student. I'm reminded of how the military chose SP's and MPs. Everyone was required to take a aptitude test. Your scores determined the career path with the highest scores being able to select the careers they desired. At the bottom, you had cooks and cops. Then you were all sent to "advanced military training" in your specialty. If you passed, you went on, but if you failed, you were given two choices. Guess what they were? COOKS AND COPS. When you ran into a sharp cop, chances were he'd selected that as his career path versus dumbing into it.

The point is, why should I not insist on every protection the law this guy is sworn to uphold work for me instead of against me. Why should I make it easy for him to correct by apathy. Not here, not in my shop. YOU, however, electing to do that just makes it more difficult for the rest of us. The "cop" puts the word out that most of us are crooks anyway and he has guys who've admitted to it by proxy. I don't blame them for trying to buffalo us into crap they aren't entitled to without legal intervention. If I could get paid for doing deer mounts without having to mount them, I'd be that way too.

Now Sergeant 133, YOU seem to be one of those who don't understand the language of the Showers case or what the guarantees you the rights of the 4 and 5th Amendment to the constitution. What part of the Federal ruling stating that NO STATE COULD MAKE YOU GIVE UP THESE RIGHTS were you unable to understand. YOUR STATE IS VIOLATING CONSTITUTIONAL LAW by even implying they can "search your freezers". Using your example, I'm sure that you are well aware that if you stop an individual possessing a valid drivers license, it DOES NOT give you the right to search his or her vehicle UNLESS you have reasonable cause such as seeing drug paraphernalia or a firearm on the seat, etc. And particularly your statement that , "If you're not doing anything illegal then why worry about it. " is particularly grating coming from a cop. What the hell kind of logic is that? If I were doing something wrong, YOU wouldn't have had a question about it so why should I have to defend myself? Bullsh1t exactly like that is what led Mke Showers to push this case to begin with. Cops allow enough real damned crooks to walk free without having to make honest citizens play chicken with their constitutional rights.

 

I still say it is great to see all this constitutional discussion going on. Gets the brain working. George, I always seem to share most of the same opinions with you, and I do on this issue. I have to laugh about the cooks or cops thing, because it used to be so true. The selection is a little different these days, but it is a good example. I agree that we should not have our rights trampled on. And I see that law enforcement serves a valid need in keeping us within the law. This is the same sort of struggle back and forth that makes this country what it is, a free country. Yet it is a country of laws where there is a balance, not run by martial law, and not run by the thugs and gangs that would take over without the law. There are plenty of examples of each of those in the news every day. So I say know what your rights are and don't get pushed around. At the same time, don't set out to be billigerent with law enforcement either, because that is a losing battle most of the time. I have always found that being honest, doing things right, and having a good attitude with authority in about 99% of the cases is all you need to get along. There are the bad ones, and they are dealt with like the case refered to in this thread. Law enforcement is cricial to this country and I respect them for what they do. That does not mean I will ever agree to give one inch of my freedom up, and I would gladly go to jail before I did.

 

From one military vet to another- George its blatantly obvious you have not had the unfortunate experience of having a run in with todays brand of justice. When and if you do have one tell that cooks or cops story to the prosecutor at your pre trial arraignment, while your trying to get any one to listen and understand common sense. The judicial red tape in todays legal system is like a seething python that suffocates the life out of any rightousness a man or woman may possess. It exemplifies the present day adage of you are guilty until proven innocent. So spare me the good ol boy patriotic jargon. It only works on the weak minded.

 

Well George I see you haven't changed a bit! I'm offended about how you choose to degrade police officers and I hope you weren't degraded me. You have no idea who I am, or what I have done in my career. You are the reason I left this forum in the first place...........a long time ago because I was tired of you BS towards others. I'm not that type of person. I stated I wasn't familiar with the case law of Showers but I know what I know. I have testified many times in a court of law, federal or state, and I can assure I know what is legal or not. You have no respect for police officers and must I remind you the many of Emergency Workers who died on Sept 11 trying to rescue others. But to make the comment in the military how cops are chosen is insane. Why do you have to do that? Like I said you haven't changed a bit. I just wonder some time how you have so much knowledge about taxidermy when I think most of your time is spent here!

I will leave with this statement I have found to be true also. People who hate cops don't like them until they need one. I hope you need one someday!

 

What a crop of crap. I have no respect for emergency workers or policemen? BULLSH1T. You and Bald Rock are my favorite "defensive listeners". You rationalize and make excuses for why life dealt you such a crappy hand, except you were sitting at the table and anted up to get it in the first place. Don't preach to me about cops, I know cops better than you think, and though you may well be the pinacle of righteousness, cops are no more exempt from the ails of society than anyone else. What other Job in
America allows me to speed in every state of the union, carry a conceiled weapon in every state of the union, and get stopped by a cop only to be allowed a pass simply by asking for a "little professional courtesy". Damned right I respect them, however. I wouldn't have their jobs for anything in the world. Not for the disasters, but for the scum they deal with on a daily basis. I admisre them more than your simple mind can imagine for confronting a child abuser or pedofile in the act without shooting his ass right there on the spot and saving taxpayers money. But the Constitution of the United States allows for cops at the will of the innocent who don't give up their rights simply because someone wears a badge. If you truly ARE a cop, then the Showers case is posted right here on this thread and you SHOULD HAVE READ IT. Bald Rock tries to skip rope about the crap Mike had to endure under exactly the same conditions he claims that prevents him from doing it. Methinks there may have been something else involved there.

And before either of you try that holding a cop up on a pedestal, tell me about all the rent-a-cops and the small town speed trap variety that permeate this country. I would hope YOU are not that kind, but just like taxidermists getting dumped into the same categorization, it's the same with cops.

And while I'm at it, if I EVER said something that "ran you away", I hope I've repeated it. Someone who can be "run off" by someone else's words (either spoken or written) isn't a very good testament to someone who needs to show character when times get tough.

"So spare me the good ol boy patriotic jargon. It only works on the weak minded. " Obviously true as it worked on both of you.

 

Damn George, your brutal! ...lol

 

I didn't intend to be, but when someone claiming to be a cop tells me that if I'm innocent I shouldn't be concerned with my rights, it pisses me off. To think of the millions of Americans who've died trying to protect the rights of the innocent from the government should be "patriotic" to all of you and should fire you up as well. Being "patriotic" takes more guts that the lack of sensitivity show by those two quislings can understand in my book.

 

Ya if you do one thing wrong its like the end of the world. then the DNR want to check u all the time

 

George, you and 1stManna belong here!

Anti-government groups usually believe:

Gun Control = Enslavement

Constitution has been subverted

The U.S. has lost its sovereignty



Opposition to a strong federal government is not new. The first Continental Congress wrestled with this issue when they first created the “Articles of Confederation” before our present day Constitution. George Washington marched troops into Pennsylvania to uphold the power of the Federal Government to collect taxes. In fact, we fought a civil war over the issue of individual and states versus federal rights.

Today’s anti-government groups have their origins in the shock and outrage among a number of groups to include gun rights groups, tax protestors, and white supremacists over the government actions with the Branch Davidian religious cult at Waco and and white supremacist Randy Weaver at Ruby Ridge along with recent laws that limited gun ownership. A coalition of these groups called for the formation of “leaderless resistance” groups—the beginning of “unorganized militias”. Few people involved in this self styled “Patriot Movement” are criminals but there are some on the extreme fringe that are convinced that the Government has been subverted and that their freedoms must be aggressively defended to the point of attacks on our governing institutions.

In general, these terrorists claim that the U.S. government is infringing on their individual rights, and/or that the government's policies are criminal and immoral. Such groups may hold that the current government is violating the basic principles laid out by the U.S. Constitution and that a new world order is attempting to enslave humanity. Some groups also believe that the government and other organizations are transgressing the rule of God as described in the Bible. Some groups see themselves as separate nations within the United States, taking the initiative to establish their own laws and common-law courts.

Did you spend time on Ruby Ridge?

 

My, my, my, so the true colors come through. I'm sure Hitler would have welcomed someone with that attitude. It worked well for him. And NO, I wasn't on Ruby Ridge, but I damned sure was in Ben Cat, Qui Nhon, Nha Trang, Bien Hoa, and a few other weird named places in 30 years. So don't talk to me about doctrine and Communist Manifesto's. Sounds like you've been drinking from the wrong well for so long it's destroyed you ability to taste fresh water. Tell us how you'd act if IAD showed up at your shift roll call and called out your name to go with them. I know how quickly a worm can turn and so do you, even if you won't admit it. I can guarantee you, your first words would be, "I want a lawyer and my union steward". And don't ever forget, when you take your badge off for that last time, you'll never be one of "them" again and you'll just be one of "us". I've been there too.

By the way, if gun control is so good, why don't you give yours up? As for me, I can't get a cop here quicker than 20 minutes. If you don't think that makes me a slave to the system without being armed, Sarah Brady is sure to have a few openings left in her group. You can play your silly games for Bald Rock. He's more on your page.

 

Well Sergeant123, that last post pretty much lets us know where you stand. Is there something wrong with strongly opposing new gun control laws? Why have more laws you have to enforce when the courts and lawyers are just going to let them walk? I respect the law and know that we need it. But I am sickened by what happened at Ruby Ridge. Like it or not, is white supremacy a crime? No, but that is why the law had it out for him and killed half his family. He was targeted by the law for his beliefs and taken down. Does that make me one of the "terrorist group" you describe? And I am sick and tired of this pathetic attituide so many people have being complacent about gun laws getting passed more every year. Every one of our rights are important, and I don't want to lose any for no reason. There are thousands of cops, is it a comfort when one dies in the line of duty that there are thousands left? No, one is too many to lose, just like our rights.

 

Read my first post I do not believe I tried to judge anyone at all!!! Read George's followed by mine and you will see how starts the hard hitting judgement my friend. If I researched this forum I'm sure I would find George started posting early this morning and continued all day. If you want me to judge, or at least try. I think George is an old cantankerous sob who probably doesn't do well in the taxidermy industry. Therefore he uses this forum to try and show his authority or wisdom to people who just know him as Geoge. Someone who meets him in person sees right through him and doesn't want to come back into his shop over because of it. I've met people like him. Meet them everyday. It's not about us against them at all. It's about trying to get on the damn forum without getting some smart ass response from people like George who have nothing better to do! Don't worry I'm not leaving this time. Will spend my time helping those who want help. Seen many of them leave because of this type of bullsh1t, and I was one. I was just too stupid to return after 1 1/2 years.


"So please have a nice evening and try to cut down on the propaganda and hard hitting judgment."

 

I suppose weak minds make for weak arguments, but I wonder why it is on those guys who run out of other explanations for being stupid resort to counting how often they see me here (I usually spend 16 to 18 hours awake each day and with a computer in the shop and in the house, I'm usually within easy access and I don't visit other sites) or my ability as a taxidermist (I suppose that counts for something to some people but I'd rather they tell you than me blowing my own horn) or what a miserable SOB I am in person (though I don't recall anyone ever telling me that in person). They slander my customers though I've had a few for all 48 years I've done this and a few more who've been faithful since I moved to Delaware in 1973. One of those actually has me on speed dial and last year alone spent about 25 grand in my shop. I'm gonna stick him for a bit more than that this year, however, since he got a little carried away on his last African safari.

Now having said all that, just what the hell does any of that have to do with not allowing a bunny cop to search my freezer without a warrant?

 

Dont include me in your police officer slander big george. Sounds like you have a history here on the taxidermy forums. Well it is quite obvious that getting throught to you is gonna be impossible. Certain folks just dont seem to get it. Set in your ways. Just cant teach an old dog new tricks.

It just occurred to me isnt this a taxidermy forum? The last 7 pages on this topic have turned it into a political forum, with no end in site. think I will get back to what I logged on for in the first place.

 

Good one Bald Rock, you were fine talking politics on the last page, now you are mad and don't want to play any more? If you don't want to have the conversation, then stay out of it from the beginning. This "I'm not playing any more" crap is stupid at this point.

 

This has all been very interesting & informative..I hope everyone walked away with at least one lesson learned from all these posts..it was a long 7 pages, but worthwhile reading..some of it actually makes you not want to sign that dotted line for a license, wondering if it is really worth it if they can come take it all away so easily..??
it all makes you wonder anyways.............

 

So what record books does everyone use. I've never been told anything about a record book. I check in my deer writing down on a shop work order. Do I need to be writing stuff down on something else as well?