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neutralizing after lutan f

Discussion in 'Tanning' started by timstaxidermy, Aug 18, 2010.

  1. timstaxidermy

    timstaxidermy Member

    hi all
    iv been reading in the archives for tanning using lutan f and noticing members are suggesting
    to neutralize after tanning with lutan,.
    is this correct and what are we using to neutralize the hide with???
    working on a bear and going to use lutan f to tan it.
    some knowledge would help me out as im getting confused with these steps.
    everyone seems to have different ones.
  2. Tim, use baking soda, a little at a time, look at the other thread, I made a post on there.

  3. My recipe for Lutan says to neutralize before tanning?? I got it from Van Dykes web site.
  4. Thistle

    Thistle New Member

    Mine too, says to neutralise after pickling, before tanning. But with my chrome and syntans, I always neutralise after tanning.
  5. As a tanner, not a supply salesman, I really suggest you neutralise after the tan, not before.
  6. Rhino

    Rhino Too many irons in the fire will put the fire out!

    Listen to Keith.

    Lutan does not even have a neutralizing step, as most of you know it.

    You add bi-carb to the tanning bath, a little at a time, until the pH hits 5. This is a FIXING pH,
    which also happens to be a good pH for a finished skin pH, when it comes to hair on tanning.

    Somebody, somewhere, need to change those instructions! Neutralizing first, using a cationic tan like Lutan,
    means the skins are NOT being tanned. ??? ??? ??? ??? :'( :'( :eek: :eek: :eek:
  7. Thistle

    Thistle New Member

    And I think I`ve just found that out, to my cost! :(
    I normally use chrome or syntans to tan with. I know where I am with them, been using them for years with no problems. Started using Lutan Fn, followed the instructions which came with it which said neutralise before tanning, thought it was unusual, but hey, printed instructions from the supplier so thought I must be stupid to question it.
    The deerhide, I had to tan again, as patches of it didn`t take first time. And a sheepskin I just tanned with it had to be totally retanned, as you say, it wasn`t tanned, took it out the tank and stretched it out using my hands only to see great big patches of pink shining through in the light! :(
    I`m going to write to my supplier about it, I`m not blaming Lutan at all, and am sure it`s a fine tan, but the instructions do need changed.
  8. bushmen

    bushmen New Member

    Hello !If talking to last step in tanning whit Lutan is not neutralization.That proces is basification-pH in tanning whit Al syntans is 3-3,2. Whit NaHCo3 in very smal parts pick up pH to 3,9.That step to cheinch pH from 3,2-3.9 is bazification-fixing tha tanning agent!In Neutralization also whit NaHCO3 ,but pH is =6-6,5.After Neutralization is redy for retanning and fatlicaring. Best Regards from Africa
  9. monarch

    monarch New Member

    Really confused with this thread. I have used Lutan FN for years now and have always neutralized after pickling and before tanning. Never experienced any problems. Whats the real deal here ?
  10. Thistle

    Thistle New Member

    Is it possible that folks neutralising the way the instructions say, are ending up with a cured, not tanned, hide? Anyone got any experience on this?
  11. could some one straiten this out because holy crap i've been nuetralizing after pickling as long as i've been at this (3 yrs). But I seem to have alot of slippage problems lately more than when I started it seems. I pinned it down to nuetralizing to long I think. But this adds a whole new dimension to it. I hope that someone who tans alot can clear this up Please................
  12. Thistle

    Thistle New Member

    Well, I can`t talk with any authority on Lutan, but since I always neutralise after tanning with other systems, going to do that with Lutan and just see what results. I`ll post in here on what happens. :)
  13. Rhino

    Rhino Too many irons in the fire will put the fire out!

    In have NEVER found a set of bad instructions from Knoblochs!


    I dont like to post instructions on my little lame website, because I like to take each case on an individual basis.
  14. Thistle

    Thistle New Member

    Much appreciated, Oldshaver, many thanks for that link. :)
  15. I tried posting an old one and messed up, Jason is going to fix it for me!
  16. jasonb

    jasonb I think I'll keep her

    Instructions by Kieth Danials.

    Basic steps for Lutan in your shop, this is keeping it simple.

    Rehydrate, Aubrey has that covered not too far down.

    Pickle, use whatever acid you use and are comfortable with. Don't crowd the skin in the pickle, try to use about 5 gal. per deer cape so you can move it and have plenty of acid, especially if you use citric.

    48 to 72 hours it should be ready to shave if you rehydrate it well first, if it's still a little stiff you'll need to shave then return to pickle.

    For something that needs degreased, do this after shaving, some degrease in the pickle, I reccomend a separate degreasing bath, get a regular degreaser made for tanning and just follow their recommendations, leave the dawn under the kitchen sink.

    Go back in your pickle several hours at least to get the pH back down.

    To use Lutan by skin weight go with 6%, that would be about 5.75 oz for an average northern deer cape. 5/8 lb salt per gallon. Your pH will vary depending on your float (amount of water to weight of skins) you'll need to check it, and add acid to bring it down to your starting point of about 3.0, your skin pH will be below that and your solution will drop a couple tenths after the skins are in.

    Agitate well, especially the first couple hours, so tan gets presented everywhere and folds don't get missed.

    After 24 hrs start to basify, you'll have to play with the amount of bicarb to match your volume, try to start slow, after a few tans you should be able to figure out approximately how much you need to bring the pH up in 3 to 4 feeds, do this about an hour between feeds and stir well. Personally I wouldn't go over 4.5, after you have reached this point leave it about an hour, then drain well, rinse in clear water ( don't soak, just rinse) let it drip overnight with no skin exposed then swab the next day, roll up over night, then proceed how ever you normally do, dry, drum, freeze etc.

    That's it in a nutshell, and I'm sure there are others that will say I'm clueless, that's why I was hesitant to put anything down.

    remember, tanning is like playing with dominoes, each one (step) has to be right for the next one to fall, starting right from properly re hydrating.

    Hope this helps
  17. Thistle

    Thistle New Member

    Thanks Jasonb, easy to follow, good advice. :)
  18. Rhino

    Rhino Too many irons in the fire will put the fire out!

    Finally, someone got it right! ;D

    The only thing I might change, would be the degrease step. Since most home tanners are limited in the amount
    of space and containers they have, I always just instruct folks to do all their degreasing in the pickle. The other way is fine also.

    Keith uses dominoes, and I compare tanning to brick laying.

    The first layer of bricks is the foundation for the rest of the wall. If the first layer is weak, every layer on top of that, will suffer!

    If you use Lutan, or the Perma-Tan 2000 that I sell(similar tan, with a twist), you should PRINT THE INSTRUCTIONS given by Keith!
  19. In the past there were persons that used to give instructions to neutralise after pickle and then tanning. I`m doing so for the past 20 years.
  20. What would you suggest for a degeaser using safetee acid oldshaver?