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Trouble in Missouri

Discussion in 'The Taxidermy Industry' started by parttimetaxidermist, Aug 20, 2010.

  1. Museum Man

    Museum Man Well-Known Member

    hard to keep up with this soap opera, is this the guy that is supposed to be kantor? if so, hope he enjoys reading about not winning all the time.
     
  2. onesportylady

    onesportylady Member

    110
    0
    **********UPDATE************
    FRANKLIN COUNTY MEETING TODAY

    I was not able to attend due to the time 10:00 AM. Both sides presented their case, NO vote was taken. According to the person I spoke with at County Council Office, this will now be discussed by the council, and a decision will be made. She also told me that it will not be VOTED on at a public meeting. I have requested a copy of the minutes and will post what I can of them. There was a problem with a court recorder, and minutes may be delayed. I'll try and find out more, and update as I can.

    I sent a VERY LARGE packet for each board member weeks ago for them to review prior to the meeting. I copied 5 different pages off Kantors web site that referenced himself to an ARTIST, and highlighted all the areas. Also newspaper articles of him referencing himself as an artist. Sent the NAICS with the federal government listing Taxidermists as ARTISTS. Also the dictionary definitions of a taxidermist.......The ART of.... I enclosed copies of numerous letters from taxidermists on this forum, the NTA, UTA, and suppliers. Hopefully, if they reviewed all the material prior to the meeting, they had a good mind set going into it.

    Will update again as I can. THANKS EVERYONE FOR ALL THE HELP!
     

  3. Museum Man

    Museum Man Well-Known Member

    comming up on march in a few days, anything new on this?
     
  4. onesportylady

    onesportylady Member

    110
    0
    I just contacted the county, and they still do not have minutes from Feb 15th. I need to go to work for them......... !!
     
  5. Anything yet? It's been close on to 3 weeks. We're all anxiously waiting...
     
  6. onesportylady

    onesportylady Member

    110
    0
    I have the minutes. The format will not allow me to edit to make it shorter. The taxidermy portion starts on page 15 and goes to the end.
    If you send me an email to [email protected] I'll see if I can attach them for you.
     
  7. onesportylady

    onesportylady Member

    110
    0
    Minutes part ONE
    FRANKLIN COUNTY
    COMMISSION MEETING


    Held at:


    400 EAST LOCUST STREET
    ROOM 003B
    UNION, MISSOURI 63084


    TUESDAY, FEBRUARY 15, 2011


    Melissa A. Allen, CCR
    10185 York Road
    Potosi, MO 63664
    (573) 854-0166
    [email protected]


    MR. GRIESHEIMER: The next issue --the
    next hearing will be a request to amend Article
    10, Section 236 of the Franklin County Unified
    Land Use Regulations to include
    taxidermists/wildlife artists to the list of
    specific examples of permitted home
    occupations.

    Scottie?

    MS. EAGAN: All right. I don't have the
    official staff report for this. And I would
    like to just tell all the Commissioners, I do
    have to leave at 12:00 so I will open this, but
    Tori is here and he knows everything about it,
    so if you have any questions -

    MR. GRIESHEIMER: Sure.

    MS. EAGAN: --he can answer them.

    What happened is, back in November of 2010
    some residents came to our Planning and Zoning
    Commission Meeting and addressed the Planning
    and Zoning Commission to amend our regulations
    to include taxidermists and wildlife artists in
    our home occupation list of permitted uses.
    Currently, we don't allow taxidermists as home
    occupations. And there were about --probably
    15 to 20 violations that were sent out to
    people in the county who were doing taxidermy
    as a home occupation.

    So in November the Planning and Zoning
    Commission asked me to change our regulations.
    And in December, we had a public hearing where
    it was basically --the No. 10 was added to the
    Permitted Use for Taxidermists/Wildlife
    Artists. And the Commission voted with nine in
    favor and zero opposed.

    MR. GRIESHEIMER: Thank you, very much.

    Is there anyone in the audience who would
    like to -

    MS. EAGAN: I'm sorry, let me read the
    hearing procedures again.

    At this time, I would like to place into
    the record the Franklin County Unified Land Use
    Regulations in 2001 as Exhibit A, the Official
    Zoning Map as Exhibit B, the Official Master
    Plan as Exhibit C and the case file for each
    case as Exhibit D for all the cases to be heard
    at this hearing.

    As each case is opened, the staff report
    will first be read by the Planning and Zoning
    Department followed by the commissioners'
    questions for the staff. Then if anyone in the
    audience would like to speak or comment during
    this hearing, they must first print their name
    on the sign-in sheet provided and then be sworn
    in. When it's your turn to speak you will come
    to the front of the room to address the
    Commission and only the Commission, not anyone
    in the audience, with any questions or
    comments. Generally, the applicant for the amendment
    is allowed to speak first, followed by those in
    support and those opposed. The applicant may
    speak again after comments from the general
    public to address the questions or issues
    brought up during the hearing.
    At the conclusion of all questions,
    comments and discussion concerning each case,
    the public hearing for each case will conclude.
    The decision will generally be made by
    Commission Order at a later date during the
    County Commission's regular meeting time.

    MR. GRIESHEIMER: Thank you very much,
    Scottie.

    Is there anyone in the audience who wishes
    to testify in favor of the proposed regulation?

    MR. GRIESHEIMER: Okay. Please come
    forward.

    LISA BARTON, being sworn by the court
    reporter, testified:

    MS. BARTON: My name is Lisa Barton. I
    live at 423 Woods Farm Road. Presently, I have
    a taxidermy area that takes up about a third of
    my basement. And I do not tan anything myself
    other than fish and squirrels.
    I send all my things out to a commercial
    tannery and I get a hide back that looks like
    this (indicates). And then I rehydrate it and
    put it on a form. This one (indicates) happens
    to be an otter, though.
    I have --let me see --this poster that I
    made (indicates) it has all the products other
    than the needles and threads that I use to do
    taxidermy. And the descriptions, I cut out of
    the catalogs like this one (indicates). It's
    the Wildlife Artists' Supply Company.
    And when I mount something, if it has
    antlers, I screw them to the form with big
    drywall screws and then I resculpt the top of
    the head with Papier-mâche’ that's non-toxic,
    non-asbestosis. And then I use water-based
    clay to set the glass eyes into the form to
    build ear buds, pat the nose. And for full
    body mounts, form the feet and the toes. It
    cleans up with water. And then I smear hide
    paste all over the form other than where I'm
    going to have the seam. And I use my bare
    hands to smear that on. It has no odor. And
    it also cleans up with water. And after I sew
    it up, I tuck the eye skin and form the eyelids
    and tuck the lip skin and nostrils, set the
    ears the way I want them. And then I let it
    dry for a couple of weeks before I do finish
    work. The first couple of days I check it to
    make sure that nothing has moved.
    When I finish a mount, I use two-part
    epoxy clay to fill in cracks that might have
    occurred during the drying and smooth the skin
    inside the nostrils. And it's the --the epoxy
    clay that I use, it's safer than solvent-based
    clays. And it also cleans up with water.

    (Off the record discussion held about the
    microphone.)

    MS. BARTON: Okay. Then when I'm ready,
    after I do the finish work, then I'm ready to
    paint it. And this (indicating) is the sort of
    paint that I use. And I have put a material
    safety data sheet for it in the stuff that I
    had sent prior to the meeting. And I smell it
    (indicating) and it's got no fumes, nothing.
    It cleans up with water and alcohol.
    This (indicates) is the airbrush that I
    use. Maybe a teaspoon of paint at a time, so
    I'm not endangering myself with horrible toxic
    fumes and stuff.
    Let's see --over 90 percent of the
    taxidermists in the whole country work from
    their homes and it's not feasible for most
    people to go out and buy commercial property
    and construct a building because when you start
    out, you have no clientele and you'll go broke.
    Most of us do it for just a little
    supplemental income, start out as hobbyists and
    and have friends that say, hey, would you do
    this for me? I'll pay you to do it, you know?
    And that's how we get into doing it
    professionally. But that doesn't mean, I don't
    think, that we should not be allowed to be
    taxidermists.
    The UDO does not state taxidermy is not
    permitted. Right now, it's just not listed
    that it is permitted. And we would request
    that you pass the amendment and allow it to be.
    Thank you.

    MR. GRIESHEIMER: One quick -MS.
    BARTON: Oh, any questions?
    MR. GRIESHEIMER: Yeah, any question -MR.
    WILSON: So I understand, you're in
    support of the proposed amendment?

    MS. BARTON: Yes.

    MS. SCHROEDER: No.

    MR. GRIESHEIMER: Ma'am, just one for me.
    I'm --I guess I need to get brought up to
    speed on Taxidermy 101, okay? Do you -MS.
    BARTON: That was it. Except for the
    skinning part. Just remove the hide only.

    MR. GRIESHEIMER: Okay.

    MS. BARTON: We don't mess with any guts
    or anything. Normally, when I get a deer,
    there might be some neck meat on it, but
    usually it's just the head. And you just
    remove the hide from the head and neck. And we
    can --it's okay with the Waste Management to
    put that in with our regular trash --just bag
    it up separately.
    Or sometimes, like --things like the
    otter that I got, I can take that out to my
    farm --I have a farm in Washington County and
    use it for coyote food or whatever. If I have
    a lot of stuff, I'll take it out there.

    MR. GRIESHEIMER: That was my main
    question is what will you do with the carcass
    or the -

    MS. BARTON: Usually, for a full-body
    mammal, it's usually a full carcass just minus
    the hide. And then a deer could be skull, neck
    and that's usually all that I get from a deer.

    MR. GRIESHEIMER: In a rough guess, how
    many of these would you process a month, let's
    say?

    MS. BARTON: (Laughs.)

    MR. GRIESHEIMER: I mean, rough guess.

    MS. BARTON: Not even one because I got,
    like, five deer and one antelope this fall.
    And I did probably four or five last year. And
    I did probably 15 or so fish over the summer.
    So I'm not a big-time taxidermist, but I like
    to do it. It's fun.

    MR. GRIESHEIMER: Okay. Thank you very
    much.

    MS. BARTON: Any other questions?

    MR. GRIESHEIMER: Any questions?
    Seeing none, thank you very much.
    Does anyone else wish to testify in
    support of the proposed regulations?
    CITIZEN: (Raises hand.)

    MR. GRIESHEIMER: Please come forward.
    (Citizen approaches.)

    JEFF VANLEER, being sworn by the court
    reporter testified:

    MR. VANLEER: I'm Jeff Vanleer. I live in
    Beaufort. I run a small taxidermy out of my
    home. Actually, out of -

    MR. GRIESHEIMER: Can you talk in the
    microphone, please?

    MR. VANLEER: I run a small taxidermy out
    of my parents' house. Actually, I process
    maybe, on a good year, 20 deer heads at the
    most. And as she said, you know, generally,
    when you get a deer head in, you get the hide
    and a piece of neck meat, it gets, you know,
    you skin it out. And, like, the skull and
    stuff like that, it's perfectly fine, Waste
    Management or your trash, properly licensed,
    you know, landfill, you can put it out for
    them. They will pick it up and haul it out.
    The biggest issue earlier when we went
    through all this stuff was chemicals and stuff.
    Mr. Kantor was saying that a lot of them were
    very toxic and different things like that. The
    majority of all the chemicals you can get -you
    order out of the supply thing just like
    Ms. Barton had there, you're not required to
    have any special licenses or anything like that
    to mess with them because they're not that bad.
    The majority of people, if you look under
    their sink in their house, it's drain cleaner
    and stuff like that that's more toxic than
    anything you mess with.
    And, like, the Conservation Department, if
    you get anything out of state --elk head or
    deer head from out of state, they have special
    requirements of what you can do with the, like,
    the skull or anything you discard. They
    require you to have it disposed at a certain
    time of year in a properly licensed landfill.
    Because they're trying --out west they have
    CWD disease, they're trying to control that and
    keep it from spreading to other states.
    So they're very --pretty strict on
    everything we do. They keep us pretty
    regulated as far as disposing of certain things
    like that. And we have to have a license --or
    a record of everything that we have in. And
    they're allowed to come in our homes any normal
    hour of the day and inspect everything we have.
    If we're in violation of certain things, they
    take it away from us and we get fined and
    possibly lose our licenses.
    And another thing from earlier when they
    were talking about it, was --they were --
    Mr. Kantor wanted us all to be in a properly,
    commercially-zoned piece of property or like a
    storefront is what he referred to quite often.
    As Ms. Barton said, with taxidermy, you don't
    have the clientele right. It's slowly builded
    (sic) up to have enough clientele to support,
    you know, a commercial building.
    And a lot of it, if we had to open a
    storefront like here in Union or something like
    that, we're going to expose a lot of people who
    probably don't want to see a lot of that stuff.
    I mean, there's --you kind of have to respect
    the rights of everybody else. You know, some
    people, they're not fans of the hunting world
    and they don't care to see that kind of stuff.
    And if we have people --we have to open a
    store in Union or some commercial --where
    there's a lot more people, your people are
    going to see you bringing deer into your store.
    And there is some not very pretty things about
    it. I'm sure some of the people's wives don't
    want to know how their deer heads --or their
    husband's deer heads go about to be hung on the
    wall.
    But a lot of that, you know, if you start
    exposing a lot of people that don't want to see
    things like that like, you know, some women and
    children and stuff like that, I think you're
    going to have a lot more complaints.
    As earlier from St. Charles County, they
    had a --I don't remember --Ms. DeVall
    (phonetic spelling) had a record, and they
    didn't have any complaints from the local
    taxidermists in 20-some years. She looked that
    up and found that.
    And the only reason anything got brought
    up here was it was from another taxidermist, no
    other unhappy neighbors or anything like that.
    Another fellow taxidermist is the one that
    brought the whole thing up and has got this
    whole process started that we've been dealing
    with since probably last September, I think,
    when they sent notices out.
    And so we're just trying to get it wrapped
    up and hopefully get everything taken care of.
    That's all I have.

    MS. SCHROEDER: Thank you.

    MR. GRIESHEIMER: Any questions for the
    witness?
    One question I do have that I forgot to
    ask the prior applicant: Are you all licensed
    at all through the Department of Conservation?

    MR. VANLEER: (Nods head.)

    MR. GRIESHEIMER: You are. So if, say, I
    wanted to become a taxidermist, I would have to
    get a license --in order to do this, I would
    have to get a license through the Department of
    Agriculture --or Conservation?

    MR. VANLEER: That's correct. You file an
    application and give them all your information,
    where your business is located and there is a
    small fee associated with it. And then they'll
    give you a license and a permit to operate and
    I --as far as to operate in taxidermy, you
    have to be licensed --or you can do it as a
    hobby without a license, but if you take paying
    customers, you're required by the Conservation
    to have a permit. And then that's --they have
    your information and know where everything is.
    That way they can come and check you and make
    sure everything is on the up-and-up.

    MS. SCHROEDER: Scottie, does our new
    regulation require that they be a licensed
    taxidermist?

    MS. EAGAN: (Nods head.)

    MS. SCHROEDER: Is there any stipulation?

    MS. EAGAN: No. The home occupation just
    --it doesn't have any requirements from the
    State or anything like that.

    MS. SCHROEDER: Could it?

    MR. VINCENT: Yes.

    MS. SCHROEDER: But it could have -

    MS. EAGAN: It could, yes.

    MS. SCHROEDER: Thank you.

    MR. GRIESHEIMER: If you want to do it on
    your own, you do not have to have a license
    from the State? It's only if you want to go
    out and do it for an occupation to get paid to
    doit? Ifyouwanttodoitjusttodoa
    couple yourselves, you do not have to get a
    license from the Department of Conservation?

    MR. VANLEER: That is correct. You -

    MS. SCHROEDER: Like, what we could do,
    though, if I'm correct, is that we could
    stipulate that they have to be licensed to have
    a home occupation. And if they don't have it,
    then they're --they can't do it. Correct,
    Mark?

    MR. VINCENT: (Nods head.)

    THE COURT REPORTER: Is that a "yes,"
    Mark?

    MR. VINCENT: (Nods head.)

    MR. GRIESHEIMER: Thank you very much.

    (Citizen approaches.)

    DAVID CHURCH, being sworn by the court
    reporter, testified: .

    MR. CHURCH: My name is David Church.
    I have a building that was in a commercial area,
    so I wasn't affected by this. I'm more --I'm
    a full-time guy. This is pretty much my
    business, but I'm here to support them.
    I have several smaller people who work out
    of their homes who help me. If I have a big
    project I need help on, I can get them to help.
    Also sometimes if they don't want to mess with
    something they send them out to me. I help
    them do some of their flesh work, different
    things like that so, you know, so they are a
    big part of what I do as well.
    More about bringing the animals in from
    other states: The regulations from the
    Missouri Department of Conservation is as soon
    as you cross into Missouri you have 48 hours to
    get that animal to a processor to a
    taxidermist. So in order to help the deer herd
    here, they're depending on taxidermists to help
    make sure that those carcasses and everything
    are distributed in the proper places.
    So, you know, without that, it's going to
    be --it could turn into a big problem, which
    hunting, especially for this county is a big
    revenue.
    Also, about two years ago I was --I was
    going through college. I graduated with an
    accounting and marketing degree. One thing
    Mr. Kantor said at the last meeting was that he
    gave up this degree from Perdue or where ever
    it was and that none of us have given up
    anything. I spent five years in school, got an
    accounting degree, sat for my CPA, was working
    at a public accounting firm. I did not like
    it. I wanted to do taxidermy, so that's what
    I'm doing. So I have given up some stuff to do
    what I want to do.
    Also I was living at Jefferson County at
    the time. I was doing it out of my house. I
    did have an insurance agent from State Farm. I
    was insured --my house was insured, my
    business was insured in the basement. I had
    business liability. I had personal liability
    on the house. Everything was separate and
    everything was fine. There wasn't anything
    that --if anything would have went wrong that
    I would not have been covered.
    Also I moved out to Franklin County about
    two years ago in order to help with my grandma.
    I moved my business out here. I started doing
    small advertising in Franklin County before
    coming here to try to transition everything. I
    had some fliers up at a local archery shop that
    --a guy that I'm friends with. Mr. Kantor
    picked up one of my fliers or somebody took one
    in to him. He called me then the next day and
    basically chewed me out for two hours saying
    that my prices were too low, if my quality was
    that good he was in trouble. And I told him,
    you know, I don't --you know, this is what I
    think is a fair price. This is what I'm
    charging. I don't know what to tell you. And
    from that time it's just been nothing but
    harassment.
    It's nothing to do with safety in the home
    or nothing like that. It's strictly, 20 years
    ago everybody that was here, including myself,
    wasn't doing taxidermy and Mr. Kantor was in
    Franklin County. Now, we've got 15 other
    people that are doing taxidermy in Franklin
    County and probably taking some business away.
    You know, that's just free market. That's how
    the country was built and that's why this is a
    great country to live in.
    Also, you know, with speaking to other
    taxidermists, they've been contacted trying to
    get a price fixed saying that everyone needs to
    be charging $500 or more because he charges
    quite a bit more than a lot of us charge, you
    know, it's just with the hard times, it's just
    kind of --you know. I'm sure he's lost
    business there as well.
    Two --well, back to 20 years ago, forms
    and materials and everything that were made for
    taxidermy, you had to be a lot more of an
    artist to have a good quality-looking mount.
    Well, now the forms are so safe and they're so
    detailed and it's pretty easy to take one of
    the new forms now and make a decent-looking
    deer head mount. You know, you don't have to
    be a, you know, Picasso to make a deer head.
    And then finally, like I said, I just --I
    don't know where I was going --oh, with the
    tanning you can go to Cabela's and you can buy
    a tanning kit. It's a Lutan-F kit. It's
    enough to tan two deer hides. It shows you how
    to --after you're done to get it to neutralize
    and turn it into brine water, which is safe to
    dispose of.
    You can also buy there, a taxidermy kit to
    mount a squirrel and to mount a rabbit and also
    mount a deer head. These are all things that
    can be bought at stores and brought into the
    house --no more chemicals than a hairdresser
    would have to dye hair.
    Also, you know, there's just nothing
    that's just very toxic. All the chemicals that
    I order, they come to me in the mail. You
    know, they come through the mail and come to my
    house --or my shop.
    And that's pretty much all I've got to
    say.

    MR. GRIESHEIMER: Any questions for the
    witness?

    MS. SCHROEDER: The only comment I have is
    we must stick to the home occupation part of
    this without going into personal things.

    MR. GRIESHEIMER: One question I do have
    with --first of all, one comment, if I was
    doing this, you wouldn't want to see it; number
    two, what do you do with the, you know, parts
    or things like that? How do you dispose of the
    pieces or -

    MR. CHURCH: Well, I mean, the hunting
    season lasts for --in Missouri for basically
    three and a half months. I personally, I have
    a meat market that I deal with that sends me a
    lot of --I put everything in trash --big
    trashcans and then a couple of days a week I
    run up and put it in their dumpsters and
    they're hauled off to a land --you know, a
    landfill. I flip them a little extra money and
    that's pretty much how I deal with it, so...

    MR. GRIESHEIMER: Thank you, very much.

    Anyone else wish to testify in support of
    the amendment --in support?

    (No response.)

    MR. GRIESHEIMER: Okay. Anyone wishing to
    testify in opposition to the regulation, please
    come forward.

    (Mr. Reichert approaches.)

    MR. GRIESHEIMER: I'm assuming you're
    going to have to get sworn in again, too?

    MR. REICHERT: Yeah, it's a separate
    hearing so...

    ERIC REICHERT, having been sworn by the
    court reporter, testified:

    MR. REICHERT: My name is Eric Reichert.
    And once again, I'm not here necessarily to
    disagree with the amendment. I do maintain the
    same thing, that it would have been nice if it
    would have been here to read. But the thing
    that caught my attention when we were talking
    was is if this proposed amendment should be
    passed with proviso that they must be a
    licensed taxidermist, then would it not deny
    the sport taxidermist who isn't required by the
    State to have a license to perform the same
    function? I just submit that. If you say that
    we're only going to allow taxidermists if
    they're licensed, okay, then the people who
    aren't licensed and who don't need to be
    licensed, they don't qualify, right? And I'll
    just leave that --you know, that's just an
    observation.

    MR. GRIESHEIMER: They could obviously do
    it as a hobby and it wouldn't come under the
    commercial side of this. And this is why this
    is -

    MS. SCHROEDER: No, it's a home
    occupation.
     
  8. onesportylady

    onesportylady Member

    110
    0
    Minutes Part 2

    MR. REICHERT: I mean, I just thought it
    was --it concerned me that maybe, you know, in
    the spirit of it, it hadn't been thought about.
    I'm not saying it's right or wrong. It just
    came in my head.
    So why don't we make sure that we don't
    inadvertently make it that sport people can't
    do it, so --thank you.

    MR. GRIESHEIMER: Anyone else wish to
    testify in opposition?

    (Citizen approaches.)

    EDWARD PRESLEY, being sworn by the court
    reporter, testified:

    MR. PRESLEY: Hello, my name is Ed
    Presley. I'm an avid hunter and fisherman. I
    have close to 30 mounts in my home that my
    friends and family enjoy to look at.
    I am against the home-based taxidermy. I
    think it jeopardizes the safety of the
    community especially the children that are
    subject to chemicals, toxic paint fumes and the
    smell of outside boilers while brains are being
    boiled and cooked out of the skull of dead
    animals.
    There's numerous home-based shops already
    doing this and I'm sure more will follow. I do
    not want a neighbor that can legally do these
    things right next to my home while I'm
    barbecuing or swinging my son outside on the
    play set. I don't want a neighbor that I can't
    trust my children to go to their house because
    of these chemicals.
    The home-based taxidermy, they're not
    subject to safety inspections, which could
    affect the safety of my property and family.
    When I built my home, I went through a
    series of building and safety inspections that
    were required to ensure the safety of my family
    on my home. A home --if I was to tell the
    building department, oh, by the way, I'm going
    to have these chemicals and paint fumes, I
    would surely --they would want to inspect.
    But what's not going on, they're not telling
    the building inspector, they're doing it
    theirselves.
    Someone that's in a commercial zone is
    inspected once a year to make sure you have
    proper ventilation and other safety features in
    effect. So I can't even believe that the
    County would even consider letting my neighbor,
    50 feet away from my family --if toxic paint
    fumes, deadly chemicals, rotting guts and flesh
    that close to me 365 days a year.
    I've heard them testify: I've only done
    five deer heads. I sit the meat in containers
    for three or four days. Well, in three to four
    to five days, what about the fish that they
    didn't tell you about? All this guts and pile
    could be 50 feet from my kids' swing set. I
    think it's inappropriate and unsafe.
    I have an ex-sister-in-law who is a
    mortician. Her job requires way less than the
    job of a taxidermy (sic). And it is yet
    illegal for her to bring her work home with
    her. And I'm sure that if she did it, she
    could probably beat out Russell Colonial
    Funeral Home embalming dead bodies in her
    basement a lot cheaper just as the people that
    are wanting to do it at home do to a licensed
    taxidermist. Thank you. That's it.

    MR. GRIESHEIMER: Any questions for the
    witness?

    (No response.)

    MR. GRIESHEIMER: No?

    Thank you very much. Anyone else in the
    audience wish to testify in opposition to the
    regulation?

    (Citizen approaches.)

    RICHARD L. SCHMEER, JR., being sworn by
    the court reporter, testified:

    MR. SCHMEER: Okay. I'm against it
    because of the fact of it is over the years I
    have seen -

    MR. GRIESHEIMER: Sir, your name?

    MR. SCHMEER: Oh, I'm sorry. My name is
    Richard L. Schmeer, Jr. Do you want my
    residence where I live, 2004 Meadow Lane.
    We moved out here 11 years ago. We left
    St. Louis County. And on the episode of
    St. Louis County, we could see the
    circumstances deteriorating of certain areas
    that were allocated for junk yards and
    everything else associated with things that
    were let go.
    The development of these things like this
    that you have here developing right now is the
    signs of the future of what's developing.
    Everyone knows economically that the economy is
    in a slump, that people are hurting for money
    and there are episodes with that.
    The consequences of it is we're taxpayers
    --everybody. They are, we are, everybody is
    in this room. But the circumstances of it is
    some of us pay more taxes than others due to
    the area where we live or what is set
    accordingly --no complaints on the
    circumstances about that.
    But the indication of it is, let the
    people, if they rule on this matter this way,
    for what matters is electable homes that I
    built in and have --thousands and thousands of
    dollars of my money invested in something
    economically --excuse me --that you see
    things deteriorating away before your eyes.
    The understanding of it is some of it is
    the tax table associated with it as well. So
    when things are deterioration (sic) away, the
    tax tables drop. You don't get the revenues
    coming in that you had before.
    That's the question that I'm bringing to
    everybody's attention. With the indication of
    guts and animals dead and everything else set
    out with trash. The trash is set out
    accordingly. Everybody in here's had the
    experience of a dog in the neighborhood that
    roamed, tore your trash up and strung it all
    over the streets. Then you have to physically
    go out there and pick it up.
    Now, there's days when people --excuse me
    --when people are too busy, they can't get to
    it right away. There's dead animals laying all
    over the place that's got to be addressed.
    Now, I live in a prestige (sic)
    neighborhood where it's pretty up --pretty
    well established. And I don't want my
    neighborhood brought down to a level where
    people are just throwing things and doing
    things this way. Because my next step would
    be, I'm coming to the County and I'm going to
    have my taxes reduced. Because devaluation on
    my property, that's what I'm looking for
    because they're going to be falling.
    I do not want that devaluation on my
    property. When you build a home and you spend
    over $300,000 for a home to be established and
    built, you're not looking for the deterioration
    on the investment to go this way. There's
    enough circumstances economically in this
    country doing things of that nature. We don't
    need to influence that more and more to where
    we're all living in the poorhouse or shacks.
    And that's the indication I got when the
    gentleman was up here before with the
    understanding that he had, on property, on
    trailers and stuff of that nature.
    We all know the indication of what that
    brings because in your judicial system, you
    evidential proof where the police make their
    reports upon that in those areas. I do not
    want to see the indication of that develop
    further because this is what the development of
    --I see my property for investments that I
    have being devaluated before my eyes by
    negligence of individuals, I don't think so.
    I would like for this Council --this
    Commission --excuse me --this Commission to
    have a full understanding about what the future
    indications not for individuals that come upon
    one or a dozen, that it comes on the matter of
    the majority of the people in this county that
    have money invested in real estate we don't
    want it devaluated, not on behalf of any
    individual for a business matter that they
    think is going to be beneficial to them. The
    rest of us that have our money invested, we're
    looking for signs that it will be led by
    correct individuals. That's all I have to say.

    MR. GRIESHEIMER: Thank you.

    Questions for the witness?

    MS. SCHROEDER: No.

    MR. GRIESHEIMER: Seeing none, thank you
    very much.

    (Citizen approaches.)

    JOSEPH T. GUASTO, being sworn by the court
    reporter, testified:

    MR. GUASTO: Good afternoon. My name is
    Joe Guasto. And I live nearby here in Franklin
    County, 2115 Desloge Estates Drive. Myself and
    my family --pretty similar situation as the
    last individual. We moved out here. I built a
    new home five years ago.
    Fortunately, we live in a neighborhood
    where we have five acre minimums in our
    neighborhood. Some people have more; however,
    several of my friends in the Pacific area are
    in one or two or near mobile home courts and
    others are in the old standard smaller
    suburbia-type neighborhoods where they're all
    on one-acre lots.
    I'm very much in support of Mr. Canter's
    efforts to be here. I've worked with him. I'm
    a customer of his and a close friend. I have
    seen over the years that he does professional
    work. He's earned his professional status.
    And he's a real credit to that career.
    What I've seen go on here today is almost
    like somebody tried to compare apples to
    oranges. You're using the word "career" --and
    I want this Commission to think about this -you're
    using the word "career" and then you're
    also using the word "hobby." Well, those
    aren't the same two things, okay?
    Let me ask the Commission this question so
    we'll open some doors and close some: What
    separates Franklin County from Jefferson
    County? Can someone give me a good answer for
    that? What's the difference?

    MR. WILSON: Sir, we're here to take
    testimony, not answer questions.

    MR. GUASTO: It has a lot to do with it.
    This law has been in effect for 50 years

    MR. WILSON: Sir -

    MR. GUASTO: --and it was in effect

    MR. WILSON: Sir -

    MR. GUASTO: --for a good -

    MR. WILSON: --please.

    MR. GUASTO: Okay. If you're going to

    MR. WILSON: We're not here to answer
    questions. We're here to take testimony.

    MR. GUASTO: I think it's a relevant
    question, isn't it?

    MR. WILSON: Sir, if you don't want to
    deal with the facts the way we have our
    hearings, you may leave.

    MR. GUASTO: These are the facts. I was
    comparing Franklin County to Jefferson County.

    MR. GRIESHEIMER: Just to be -

    MR. GUASTO: We're allowed to do that as
    is Crawford County.

    MS. SCHROEDER: We're not here for debate.

    MR. WILSON: We're not here for debate.
    We're here for testimony.

    MR. GRIESHEIMER: If you would, just
    confine your remarks to the issue itself.

    MR. GUASTO: Thank you, I will.
    I see this as a big step backwards for
    Franklin County. When people ask me, how is
    Franklin County doing? What types of progress
    are going on there? I point out different
    neighborhoods that have been established. I -I
    talk about Wildwood. I talk about the future
    of Franklin County becoming something very
    nice, okay? A place where people can bring and
    raise a family and enjoy themselves and be safe
    about it.
    I piggyback on some of the issues,
    specifically, the number one is health. Now,
    picture driving by someone's house on a
    Saturday afternoon and it's 95 degrees outside
    and they have trashcans sitting on the curb
    filled with guts and carcasses of various
    different animals, fish and what-have-you.
    Well, if those people live with --if those
    novice or professionals --the one individual
    is a professional and he's licensed. He
    operates out of his home --what might happen
    during the night? In my neighborhood those
    raccoons would be through that trashcan and
    have guts and fur and hooves and arms --stuff
    splattered all over the place. This would be
    night and day. Maggots.
    They mentioned that there aren't harmful
    chemicals. I've got news for you, some of
    those chemicals are toxic. When they clear
    coat these animals, that stuff is extremely
    toxic. And they don't have proper ventilation
    and no one inspecting them. And from an
    economic --excuse me --from an economic
    standpoint, who is ever going to check to see
    if these people are actually on the up-and-up
    if they're operating out of their house, i.e.
    reporting all of the work that they do and the
    exchange of monies and paying taxes on those.
    It hasn't been addressed. I haven't heard that
    yet. And maybe that's something that needs to
    be looked at by the Commission also, okay?
    That's all I have.

    MR. GRIESHEIMER: Questions for the
    witness?

    MS. SCHROEDER: No.

    MR. GRIESHEIMER: Seeing none, thank you
    very much.

    (Citizen approaches.)

    PAUL CANTER, being sworn by the court
    reporter, testified:

    MR. KANTOR: I have some documentation -

    MR. GRIESHEIMER: First of all, could -

    MR. KANTOR: My name is Paul Kantor.

    MR. GRIESHEIMER: Thank you.

    MR. KANTOR: My name is Paul Kantor. I am
    a professional taxidermist. And I have been
    operating a taxidermy studio professionally for
    42 years. It is to my understanding that you
    cannot start a business for taxidermy and make
    a living doing it right off the bat. Well,
    you're looking at a man who became successful
    in doing this.
    In St. Louis County and Franklin County,
    it currently is not allowed to do taxidermy
    work in a home. When I started, I gave up a
    master's degree. I'm a graduate of Penn State
    University and NYU. And I did work for
    McDonnell Douglas. When I started to do
    taxidermy work, I went to city hall, got a
    permit to operate, found out where I can
    operate properly and been in a store for 42
    years. Currently, the economy is down and there's
    a lot of people that had done taxidermy work in
    their home. I am the person who went to the
    Missouri Conservation Department and had on
    their application changed that when you apply
    for a taxidermy permit, you don't need to buy
    it if you are doing it as a hobby. It's stated
    right on there that there's no need for this
    permit. But if you were starting to charge for
    this permit, you need a taxidermy license. And
    on the license I also had a regulation changed
    that if you're in violation of the City, County
    or Zoning or anything, you could have your
    license suspended.
    So what I'm saying to you is, I don't
    understand --and I would like to have some
    questions answered --there was a hearing
    before and that is why we are here for the
    Planning and Zoning Committee on why taxidermy
    should be allowed in a home and it was voted
    on. Eleven men, I think, voted against me.
    And that's why this meeting is here right now.
    But I ask this particular meeting and the
    people here: How do you make a decision on
    what you're going to do --whether you're going
    to vote on this, if you know nothing about our
    profession? An example, at this meeting, I
    asked how many people have ever been in a
    taxidermy studio? And I asked how many ever
    saw what we do? There wasn't replies.
    I brought in samples of specimens that I wanted
    to show what we actually do in the back of our
    studio. No one allowed, at that meeting, for
    me to show them. But yet they voted against
    me. And I'm saying to you, if you are going to
    vote on this, you need to learn what taxidermy
    is. The premise of a taxidermist is what they
    are saying, it's a nice occupation. We all
    enjoy it. I hope you don't fall asleep.

    MR. GRIESHEIMER: I'm sorry.

    MR. KANTOR: What I'm trying to say here
    is the premise that these taxidermists would
    have went to Planning and Zoning and stood up
    and said, we are working with carcasses, dead
    bodies, animals, fish, birds. We want to
    change the law. They probably would have said,
    no, it stays as it is. I need to ask this
    Commission, in the 42 years of doing taxidermy
    work, what is the reason that we are here? Did
    you get a good reason for changing the law that
    has been in existence for a long time? I don't
    know what the reason is. Is it because they
    want to make money on the side? Is it that
    they want to work out of their home? I don't
    know what the reason is. I would like to know.
    I invested $300,000 in Franklin County
    because I couldn't go to work in a home.
    I don't want to work in a home. I have employees
    that work for me. We have a beautiful
    professional studio.
    Now, if --what are you going to base your
    decision on to change this law? I would like
    to know what facts you're going to look at.
    The only question that I was asked at the last
    meeting before they approved it: How many deer
    do you mount? How many fish do you do? How
    many birds do you do? That's the only
    question. And being a legal taxidermist, I can
    mount a thousand. I can have 20 employees.
    But there were no perfect questions asked about
    my profession. They didn't want to view what
    we do in a home --what they do in a home and
    what we do in the back of our studio. Like one
    taxidermist said here, if you work in a store
    you're going to see people bringing carcasses
    in. It's not a good point. What about people
    bringing the carcasses into their home?
    So what has changed in the taxidermy
    industry to allow this code to change? I would
    like an answer to that because I know of no
    change. We have more chemicals to use now.
    I'm going to give to you the material data
    safety sheets you can pass around and keep.
    There's over 80 of them there. Everything is
    toxic. Everything is harmful. I'm also going
    to pass around paints that we use. And like
    one gentleman said, you can go to Lowe's, you
    can go to Home Depot, you can buy chemicals.
    Well, guess what? None of those chemicals that
    you can buy at Home Depot or Lowe's state that
    you cannot use them in a house --not for
    household use.
    I'm going to pass around the paints that
    we use. They're all for professional use only
    and not for household use, and you can see
    this. Inspections. I have an inspection by a
    fire marshal that comes into my office along
    with every business in Franklin County. We
    have to meet codes. If we don't have the codes
    up to par, we have a violation and we have 30
    days to correct it. In my studio we have
    paints. We need an exhaust fan. We need a
    paint room. This all costs money. But
    according to the fire marshal, we need to do
    it. No one is going to go into homes and have
    an inspection like one of the persons
    mentioned. If you pass this, there is no control over
    how many deer they use, what they're going to
    consist of in a basement chemical-wise or even
    having a health hazard in their home. Who's
    going to go in there and inspect it? I would
    like to know. So again, I repeat, if you have an answer,
    what has changed in the industry, I would like
    to know. Because I know of no change.
    A hundred years from now things will still
    be the same. Now, when I say, will be the
    same, what's prohibited here is the mortician,
    taxidermist, the veterinarian. Now, on the
    situation of taxidermy, it's not allowed right
    now and these people didn't call Planning and
    Zoning. If every business in this county did
    that, there would be a lot of violations that
    occurred. But they never made that call to the
    County to see if it was legal.
    Now, you have the opportunity to keep the
    law as it is or you have the opportunity to
    change it. But let me ask you this: If I had
    a deer processing place in my basement to
    process deer, I know that's not allowed. Why
    do you think that is not allowed? Would you
    agree with me that's because of the deer and
    animals that are brought into the basement of
    someone's home --the skinning, the blood, the
    carcass disposal? If you agree with --and you
    also have to ask, why is a mortician not
    allowed to work in a home? They used to. The
    law was changed. You used to be able to work
    in a home in taxidermy. The law was changed.
    Would you agree with me that in a home, it's
    not a proper place to work on a corpse and have
    the chemicals in the basement of your house?
    If you agree with me, how can you pass the law
    to allow taxidermist to work in a home because
    they're bringing animals --dead animals, dead
    bodies, dead carcasses in a home, which contain
    disease, fleas, maggots and insects. Is this
    going to be allowed? I don't know. I hope
    it's not. And I hope you can keep the law as
    it is because any future taxidermist --like,
    we were talking the tax margin, I generate a
    lot of tax base for this community. If you
    send your school --if you send your son or
    daughter to taxidermist school or mortuary
    school or veterinary school, if it's allowed to
    work in a home, why would they come back after
    graduating to come to Franklin County to open
    up a store if everyone is allowed to work in a
    home? It's not going to happen. And if every
    one of the stores in the subdivisions would
    leave, there would be no tax revenue for our
    county. So this profession has been, for all
    these years, not allowed and there's reasons
    for that. You need to look why that has been.
    Now, the people who voted against me did
    not want to view what I brought in, nor did
    they go to the people's homes to see what they
    are doing. But before you make a decision, I
    invite you to come to my studio. You need to
    come to the back room of our studio to see what
    really is taking place in these homes of these
    people. And then when you view what a
    taxidermist does, you may make a different
    decision on what we do. We wear the hats of
    many people. We are an artist. We are a
    sculptor. We are a cabinetmaker. We are an
    interior designer on designing the habitat
    scenes. But we are a taxidermist -

    MR. GRIESHEIMER: Okay. If you could kind
    of summarize your comments? We've got a -

    MR. KANTOR: Oh, okay. I'll summarize my
    comments that if you allow people to bring dead
    animals in their home, I think this is wrong.
    It hasn't been a law for 42 years for this
    reason to change it. Franklin County is not
    going to go backwards. It should stay where it
    is to go forward and generate new business.
    The man here, David Church, is an example.
    A new business man opened up. He's making a
    living doing it. The rest of the people could
    do the same thing. Do you want to be an
    entrepreneur, go ahead and rent a store. And
    if you don't --a pizza parlor, rent a store.
    You're not allowed to do it in your home.
    So I want to give you some facts to look
    at here. After the meeting, take this back and
    in a week or two, browse through this stuff -

    MR. VINCENT: Mark those as an exhibit.
    Those will be part of the record, you don't get
    those back.

    MR. KANTOR: I don't want it back.

    (Exhibits A through J marked for
    identification by the court reporter.)

    MR. KANTOR: The exhibits that I gave you,
    there's a material sample data sheet of every
    chemical that we have in the catalogs in case
    people say they can order them. Almost
    everything has a toxic point to it. You can't
    touch it. You can't get it in your eyes. Some
    is poisonous and some is toxic to the touch.
    Now, if you send everything off to the
    tannery, you're eliminating a lot of the acids.
    But there are products there --in our paint
    room, everything on there, unlike the things
    you can buy at Lowe's and Home Depot -everything
    there says not for home use -professional
    use only --right on the labels.
    So the fire marshal makes us have a ventilation
    system.
    Now, if you go in a home of these people,
    how do you know what they're doing? No
    inspections. But everything we have is very
    toxic. And with the animal carcasses and with
    everything, you need to consider keeping the
    law as it is because these people can still be
    a hobbyist and do taxidermy work in their home.
    They also could still be a professional and
    open up a store and compete with the rest of
    us.
    Now, if everyone around the county is
    operating in a home, they too could be in
    violation of zoning. And that's the whole
    thing. If these people would've called Tori,
    we would not have this meeting. Everyone would
    have been told, one at a time, you cannot do
    that. They didn't even know each other until I
    made the report. And this is the first time
    that there's been this many reported at one
    time for a violation. And also it's the first
    time that we're talking about changing a law
    that has been in existence for a long time.
    But really, please consider my invitation
    to you because if you were going to be like the
    people who approved this meeting here before
    making a recommendation without knowing what we
    do, I suggest a field trip that all three of
    you spend at my studio --give me a one-or
    two-day notice and I will pull out the samples
    that I was going to show the other people that
    they did not allow me to do but this is what
    they're taking in their home and this is what
    they're doing.
    If you come to my studio, you will see our
    spray booth. You will see --and I will spray
    paint for you --how you can smell the odors.
    And during the deer season, there's rows of
    deers on the floor. In the archery season, the
    deer contain a lot of ticks.
    In a home, I don't think it's right and it
    hasn't been right. And you need to stick with
    your guns and let these people be a
    entrepreneur and work in a storefront, get out
    of the home. You don't need neighbors with a
    $300,000 home --I'm going to cut it off and
    I'm going to be done.
    I hope that you will consider keeping the
    law as it is and maybe we'll have a few more
    professionals in a storefront and maybe more
    tax revenue will be generated to the County.
    Because working in your home, there is no tax
    revenue.
    Thank you for your time and consideration.
    I really, really wish, before you make a
    decision --come to my studio because if you do
    this very shallow-minded, I don't think you
    know what you're talking about if you vote on
    something that you don't actually see what we
    do.
    Thank you for your time and make an
    appointment, come over --if I don't hear from
    you, I'll call --and table the decision until
    you see what we do because what I do is exactly
    what they're doing.

    MR. GRIESHEIMER: Questions for the
    witness?

    MS. SCHROEDER: I have a question. You
    keep referring to a law of 45 years. What
    specific law are you speaking?

    MR. KANTOR: Forty-two years ago -

    MS. SCHROEDER: Forty-five.

    MR. KANTOR: Well, I meant to say 42. You
    cannot have a home occupation business in
    taxidermy in a home. And when I started -

    MS. SCHROEDER: What law is --state
    law -

    MR. KANTOR: No, County and the City
    Zoning Ordinances.

    MS. SCHROEDER: That's --okay.

    MR. KANTOR: It's not a state law if you
    --when I was in St. Louis County and had a
    storefront, you could not operate a taxidermy
    business in a home. It wasn't allowed then.
    It's not allowed now. So I had to rent a
    store. I started up in a store -

    MS. SCHROEDER: In St. Louis County?

    MR. KANTOR: In St. Louis County, yes.

    MS. SCHROEDER: In Franklin County, where
    did you start off at?

    MR. KANTOR: In Franklin County I started
    out in a store. And just to remind you, I
    forgot about this --I know it's been two more
    minutes --I got evicted out of my building in
    St. Louis County by Zoning -

    MS. SCHROEDER: I really don't care about
    St. Louis County, so specific to Franklin
    County -

    MR. KANTOR: I've been here about 25
    years. And I've been in a store all that time
    in Franklin County. I have a beautiful store
    now at the corner of Highway 100 --you can see
    it from Highway 44. Please come to my studio
    and see what we do. Then make a decision.
    Thank you.

    MR. GRIESHEIMER: Terry?

    MR. WILSON: Your store is where, at 100
    and -

    MR. KANTOR: Right by Mr. Fuel truck stop
    on 100. You can see my building, I have a
    Hollywood billboard on it. It would take about
    45 minutes to have a tour. We offer tours to
    the general public but we don't show what we do
    in the back room. But what you need to see is
    what we do in the back room to make a decision
    because that's what they're doing in their
    home.

    MR. WILSON: What do you do with your
    disposal of this -

    MR. KANTOR: The same thing. We have a
    weekly pickup. We are allowed to put it in our
    garbage. We have nine freezers in our studio.
    Everything is frozen until it's put in the
    garbage the night before, so it's frozen solid.
    And it's picked up.
    And I also want to say one thing, when I
    designed my building, we put a shower --I have
    a shower in my store so my employees could
    change clothes, take a shower before they go
    home. When you come on the tour, you'll see a
    shower. There isn't a business that has a
    shower for their employees in case they need it
    --in case we have a chemical spill and you're
    working on fish, you're working on deer. When
    you go home to have dinner, you smell. They
    can change clothes.
    So when you come, I think your eyes will
    be opened up on how beautiful of work we can
    perform. But the artist is in the taxidermist
    but changing the word is blowing smoke over
    what we do. It needs to say taxidermist,
    mortician, veterinarian store, end of story.
    Come and you will see. And if you don't come,
    I will be very disappointed because you're
    going to be like the people before making a
    decision on something you know nothing about.
    Thank you.

    MR. GRIESHEIMER: Thank you.

    Anyone else in the audience wish to
    testify in opposition to the regulation?

    (No response.)

    MR. GRIESHEIMER: Anyone wishing to
    testify for information purposes only on the
    regulation?
    Seeing none, I -

    MS. SCHROEDER: Wait, I have a question -I
    guess an open question to those on this side
    (indicating) of the room, I guess, could we
    come and look at one of yours?

    MS. BARTON: Yes. And we do pay taxes on
    our -

    MS. SCHROEDER: That's all I have.
    Thanks.

    (Citizen indicates.)

    MR. GRIESHEIMER: If you want to, come
    forward and be sworn in.

    (Citizen approaches.)

    DAN VANLEER, being sworn by the court
    reporter, testified:

    MR. VANLEER: My name is Dan Vanleer. I
    live at 701 Hill Creek Road in Beaufort. And
    my son, Jeff, was up here and talked to you
    before. Did you have minutes from the Planning
    and Zoning -

    MS. SCHROEDER: Yes, sir.

    MR. VANLEER: You know, I respect your
    comment not to attack the individual. I think
    these people (indicating) are attacking all
    these (indicating) people. They're making them
    sound like complete animals that they've got
    dead deer carcasses --stuff laying all over.
    That is not the case. These people
    (indicating) are not animals themselves.
    They're trying to make a few dollars for their
    families. Missouri Department of Conservation, their
    proper method of disposal is in a landfill.
    You know, everybody's got trashcans, they set
    it out --dirty diapers, kitchen waste --it
    sits out all day. It's not going to smell like
    a bed of roses. But they don't --my son
    doesn't do that. I wouldn't allow it in my
    house.
    Mr. Kantor talks about firemen. I talked
    to a full-time firefighter, he has no problem
    coming to my house if there was a fire or to
    your house. He says a can of gas for your
    lawnmower, any of those things are hazardous.
    Chemicals under your kitchen sink, anything.
    He would not treat it any differently.
    Mr. Kantor talks about these chemicals
    that are so hazardous and smells and all this.
    If it's that bad should he be in a public area
    where he brings Boy Scouts. He admits he does
    tours. He exposes them to all this. Should he
    be exposed to those chemicals right there
    (indicating)?
    In Planning and Zoning you talked about
    insurance issues. Is it your job or your
    responsibility to dictate how much insurance an
    individual should have on their home?
    The bottom line for this whole thing is,
    Mr. Kantor will disagree, you sent out 15, 17
    letters in Franklin County shutting these
    people down. And in three other counties the
    same thing happened. If these 15 people do one
    mount, that's 15 mounts less that Mr. Kantor
    has the opportunity to do. It's all about
    competition --bottom line, money. With the
    money situation the country's in, everybody is
    hurting. If I eliminate the competition, I can
    do better.
    He talks about the paint fumes. I think
    if you read in the minutes he stated that
    people can walk in his front door and say, oh,
    I smell paint. What are you painting today?
    If he's doing such a tremendous job with that,
    how can a customer walk in the door and smell
    paint? He's not doing what he's saying. On
    one hand he says one thing and on the other
    hand he's got just the opposite.
    But I really take offense in the issue
    that there's dead animals, guts, deer meat
    laying in front of my house. That is
    ridiculous. Thank you.


    MR. GRIESHEIMER: Thank you. Any
    questions for the witness?

    (No response.)

    MR. GRIESHEIMER: Seeing none, thank you
    very much.

    Anyone else wish to testify either in
    opposition or in support or opposition to the
    regulation or for informational purposes?

    (Citizen indicates.)

    MR. GRIESHEIMER: Go ahead.

    (Citizen approaches.)

    RON KEEVEN, being sworn by the court
    reporter, testified:

    MR. KEEVEN: My name is Ron Keeven from
    New Haven, Missouri. Informational only. As
    you ponder this dilemma, you're talking about
    implementing something that's going to control
    what people can do in their homes business-wise
    or as a hobby. I would like you to take in
    account all the people who do heating and air
    conditioning from their homes. That would
    eliminate some competition for me. So we've
    opened up a Pandora's box. I'm glad I'm not in
    your position as you sit there. But please
    look at it as an informational thing here.
    Where do we draw the line as to when we stop
    controlling, you know, unless these people are
    hanging a sign out and creating a nuisance,
    that's where the issue lies, that's where the
    enforcement should take place.
    Thank you. Any questions?

    MR. GRIESHEIMER: Any questions for the
    witness? One comment, we'll draw up that regulation
    next week.

    (Laughter from the audience.)

    MR. GRIESHEIMER: Anyone else in the
    audience, come on down.

    (Citizen indicates.)

    MR. GRIESHEIMER: You have spoken twice -
    once, I'm sorry. Anyone else in the audience who has not
    testified?

    (No response.)

    MR. GRIESHEIMER: Seeing no further
    business --okay, Commissioners, do you have a
    comment?

    MR. WILSON: Procedural question for Mark.

    MR. VINCENT: Yes.

    MR. WILSON: I think we've had some
    discussions kind of around certain issues of
    going out and looking at properties -

    MR. VINCENT: And I've always told you the
    same thing, you can do it but the public has
    the right to come, too.

    MR. WILSON: So if we go to Mr. Canter's
    basically, at that point, anybody who wishes to
    go, may go?

    MR. VINCENT: Yes. It has to be posted
    where it's going to be, when it's going to be,
    it's got to be open for a meeting just like
    anyplace else would be.

    MR. WILSON: Okay. And that's the way
    I've understood it, so...

    MR. VINCENT: They don't have to provide
    refreshments, but they have to let everybody
    in.

    MR. WILSON: Well, that's no fun.

    Tori?

    MR. KARIM: Yes.

    MR. WILSON: A question for you: I know
    when issues comes to Planning and Zoning's
    attention, you know, we either have to react or
    not react to zoning changes or whatever, what
    prompted the situation with them actually going
    to the Planning and Zoning Commission?

    MR. KARIM: Basically, this is a
    complaint. Once there's a complaint filed with
    Planning and Zoning, we follow through with
    every complaint --every witness complaint.

    MR. WILSON: It's a witness complaint but
    then we actually had an issue where it went to
    the Zoning Commission?

    MR. KARIM: We sent out violation notices.

    MR. WILSON: Okay. So was it the County
    the one that started the process? I mean, just
    because there's, you know, complaints filed
    doesn't mean that we change the regulation.

    MR. KARIM: No, you do not. We actually
    met back when we were working on this we were
    going to do criminal charges if the operation
    wasn't ceased within a certain time given. So
    that's when the whole process started --
    Mr. Kantor started the whole process as far as
    to change the regulation. He went to different
    counties and different counties called us.
    People who got the violation notices, they
    called in. They wanted to change it because
    they wanted it to be a home occupation.

    MR. WILSON: Well, then has taxidermy been
    allowed in Franklin County in the past under
    any circumstances?

    MR. KARIM: Not that I remember.

    MR. WILSON: So anybody that has a
    taxidermy service, are they in violation?

    MR. KARIM: According to current
    regulations, yes?

    MR. VINCENT: I can't answer that that
    way. I'd have to look at the Code to see that.

    MR. WILSON: It would be interesting to
    find that out.

    MR. VINCENT: Well, it really doesn't have
    anything to do with this hearing.

    MR. WILSON: I know.

    MR. VINCENT: It may have to do with
    others who are engaged in that activity.

    MR. WILSON: Thank you.

    MR. GRIESHEIMER: Before I call adjourned
    is there -

    MS. SCHROEDER: No.

    MR. GRIESHEIMER: Seeing no further
    business before this body, we will stand
    adjourned. This hearing is closed.
     
  9. onesportylady

    onesportylady Member

    110
    0
    I am very pleased to inform everyone I just got off the phone with Franklin county Council.
    Tuesday, they will be putting the Taxidermy in as a home based business.
    There will be some restrictions that they are going to forward me in certain high density areas for NEW Taxidermists. ALL EXISTING taxidermist that were issued the seize and desist orders will be GRANDFATHERED in, and no one will be shut down.
    All three counties that had issues are ALL resolved, with good results. ALL of the taxidermists are working again, or will be allowed to continue to work from their homes.

    Franklin county is not as good as we would have hoped, but it is positive, and keeping everyone working. They are going to send me the exceptions via email. As soon as I get those I will post them.

    If it is the same as St. Charles County, you will need to apply for a one time permit. In St. Charles county, it was $10.00 for the life of your business at the address the time of issue.

    Again, another thanks for all of you for helping, the NTA, UTA, suppliers, and all of you for the letters, information, and encouragement. Without your help, none of this would have been possible. THANKS AGAIN.
     
  10. Museum Man

    Museum Man Well-Known Member

    hope kantor chokes on the news..
     
  11. pir^2h

    pir^2h Retrievers give you the bird

    X2!

    Suck it up Kantor. Maybe your actions will end up putting you out of business. My grandmother used to always tell me, "You reap the seed you sow". Now you have alienated yourself from the entire taxidermy community near you. Better hope you never need a favor.

    Kantor probably did not count on people pulling together like they did. As they say, "there is strength in numbers". Congrats all involved. This only serves to strengthen the case in the event he decides to go after other counties and try to get them to close down taxidermists.
     
  12. huntin_justin

    huntin_justin Active Member

    1,270
    0
    you ever visit his webpage. hes got about 4 pages telling you how to select a taxedermist. Even mentions avoiding the part time out of the garage guy. Its sad that he has to be that worried. But congratulations on the victory. Its a great thing you all did
     
  13. After reading his talking, He prove he is an idiot.
     
  14. And we all thank you very much too. Everyone helped, but without your original post to alert taxidermists to this travesty and your organizing and ramrodding the fight, this success would have not happened. From all of us to you THANK YOU!!
     
  15. Cole

    Cole Amateur Taxidermist

    Great job onesportylady, as a Missourian I thank you for your hard work and efforts in correcting this issue affecting those on the other side of our state.
     
  16. wildwings

    wildwings New Member

    Glad it worked out ! I had a nightmare of trying to get a home occupation permit in town due to ahole neighbors however the City Council seen thru the BS and the only restriction I got was no tanning in house. My permit went under a Beauty Shop which I got crap about from my wife. Any how thanks for doing your part !
     
  17. trappersteph

    trappersteph now you can have it...

    Even if you do tan in-shop, you can use stuff like safety acid and ez-100 which are supposed to be "green" if you will. You really need only worry about the salt. Kantor is so full of it...

    I had to convince a borough board in PA to let me do taxidermy right in town. I said I could freeze things and that I had a place of disposal pretty close by anyway for the carcasses. And I explained tanning chemicals as the safety acid and stuff, that when neutralized, one need only worry about the salt water, and I wasn't going to dump it right in a storm drain LOL. The agreement was also that I cannot boil or otherwise clean skulls there ( I had a farmy location for maceration). I was approved. Too bad that became a money pit and I had to sell the place...
     
  18. LOL! Poor Kantor he never wins!
     
  19. antlerman

    antlerman NTA Life Member #0118

    12,572
    6
    GREAT Job Barb. Thank You.
     
  20. riverratray

    riverratray New Member

    25
    0