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Skin mounts & the C & R philosophy

Discussion in 'Fish Taxidermy' started by dougp, Sep 9, 2010.

  1. bill@hogheaven

    [email protected] New Member

    Theres nothing wrong with worshipping Carp LOL. I plan to worship some this weekend.
  2. DanB

    DanB New Member

    OK, just don't do any skin mounts.

  3. bill@hogheaven

    [email protected] New Member

    I dont do fish anymore but I wonder if a skin mount of a carp is feasible. They are the oiliest fish I have ever seen, they make a laketrout look dry. If I ever need fishoil to make trapping lure again I know where to get it. Carp are a great fish to put back as it is easy to catch them over again. Often you can catch one twice in one day.
  4. fishmaster

    fishmaster Well-Known Member

    I hope you perch, crappie and walleye fishermen up in the northland realize that if you didn't keep any of those species either, that those muskies would be a little fatter, a little longer and a little stronger. By depriving the muskies of the extra nourishment that you selfishly take home to your families, some of them are unfit to survive the hook set, the fight, the bicep squeeze and the gentle release using surgical tools. So therefore, the mortality rate of c&r muskies is largely due to you selfish panfish fishermen. Shame on you!
  5. dougp

    dougp Active Member

    Sorry Dan, I slipped up and skinned out another one...!!! :eek:

    Bill, I did one 2 yrs ago about 25lbs. Cust insisted on a skin mount. It took a lot of degreasing and I molded and cast the orig head. I think it will work and stand the test of time. I'll try and find a pic......

    Don, we are ALL to blame!!!! We are just terrible people,eh ;D ;D ;D ;)

  6. dougp

    dougp Active Member

    Here's the carp.......hasn't come back yet ;D ;)


    Attached Files:

  7. Jason S

    Jason S New Member

    Cool carp Doug! I love the lines of that pike with the barley open mouth in the background! Do You have a better pic of the pike? :)
  8. FishArt

    FishArt Well-Known Member

    Yeah, but what's with the cardboard plaque in the shape of North Dakota? Man you're CHEAP! Only ONE eye and NOW using cardboard for plaques???? :)
  9. dougp

    dougp Active Member

    Smart A$$...!!! After my customer paid the bill for the mount thats all he could afford for a panel.....hey, we all have to cut back with this economy, eh? ;D

    Thanks Jason.....I do have another pic of the pike. I don't want to get too far off subject and hijack my own thread....LOL!! I'll post the pic in TWIFP...glad you like it. That too BTW is a skin mount and was

    mounted in '96...hasn't rotted yet. I'll keep an eye on it though..... ::) ;)

    I'm STIILLLLL hoping for some more insight into C&R and skin mounts from our muskie friends......................................................waiting............... ::)

    Johnny Dadson, how come I can't log on your muskytooth sight after you claimed to invite me??????????

  10. bill@hogheaven

    [email protected] New Member

    Nice Carp Doug, thanks for sharing.
  11. Brian W

    Brian W Active Member

    Which handling method was that: the surgeon's or the black belt's.....ah, I know, he's tying a surgeon's knot..... ;D
  12. I tried to register also. Under the name "Esoxy beast" LOL
    but alas I got the same error.

    I love the shots of them holding the musky grinding the slime off on their shirts. Thats hot stuff right there, I'm sure the Skis love that.
    Those shots alone get slammed on many fishing forums by the Muskie lovers, surprised he has them up.

    Oh and DC as a response for the dig on Sconnie (Wisconsin for you without the sconnie accent)

  13. dcmusky

    dcmusky New Member

    Glad to see you treat Johnny with much more maturity than the muskie guys ever could. ::) I don't care if someone catches a legal fish and keeps it, mounts it, eats it it or what ever. I can see you guys are PO ed about the replica industry and some of the better ones out there won't give you guys the blanks for. Please the overseas replicas? I would rather have a piece of dog crap on my wall than one of those. I'm not a guide but I do go around and promote C&R and we bring a high quality replica with us and 90% of the people ask us if that's a REAL fish. I also wonder were the heck you get your numbers from on the 10 to 30% mortality, are they live bait walleye numbers of what? I will be the first to admit some fish do die, even had one die on me years back and we ate it. :eek: But I also would like to add that if I had all the right release equipment and more experience I know that fish would of lived.
    My main problem with Doug & Marty is they promote killing fish for their profit and even go as far as to try to persuade people to go the skin route by pricing. If every one of us kept our biggest fish then the next big one would we have any trophies left? The Science says "NO". Last year I caught a 55in. out of a lake were there is no natural reproduction so what harm would I have caused by keeping that one? Well I want someone else to feel that feeling of joy that I felt when I got to hold her even if it was just for 10 seconds. I see some really talented people on this board like Dan B, those carvings are out of site man. But I also see some paint by numbers fish skinners and it seems all they want to hear is Kill baby kill. Glad you liked the Wisco slam, too bad I could pick any lake in Minnesota that has skies and it probably has produced more 50 inch fish in the last year than ALL of Wiscoland.
    Dan Crooms
  14. Dan my Issues with the C$R movement is this.

    1. Threats and acts of violence against people for keeping a LEGAL fish. It happens quite frequently and has happened to me and my friends.
    When you have 60 year old men who are rammed and knocked out of a canoe for keeping a legal fish I say we have a problem.
    If you want to win some of us over start there and put a leash on your movement by condemning such actions both publicly and privately.

    2. The stocking of Muskellunge in bodies of water where they are not meant to be. There have been several lakes that were deep and cold in northern states that didn't support muskie due to lack of spawning habitat.
    but thanks to muskie clubs they are now full of fat big muskies, why are they so big? They were feasting on native species of the genus Coregonus. Some of those are now thought to have been a fairly distinct species but now are in extreme peril. The introduction of a non native (Invasive) species into an ecosystem that has no natural defense against it is INSANE and I challenge you to find any true fisheries biologist who will disagree.
    Ask anyone out west what they think about muskie and pike introduction

    3. Idiotic sheeple who jump on any bandwagon because they saw someone do it on TV. (Thats a personal issue of mine however, so ill take responsibility for my dislike of that one and try to grow into a more tolerant person. After all idiots are people too)

    If they do not carefully deal with this C&R only mantra they will open themselves up to PETA plants who will shut down fishing all together.
    Everything in moderation, extremists have never had a positive impact on any movement.

    I still stand by my statement of


    For picking on Wisconsin, although I say it with a smile.
    :-* :-* :-*
  15. Are you kidding me? If you're referring to who I think you are, I wouldn't want most of their blanks!

  16. If I'm not mistaken Doug, aren't you charging more for your skin mounts than replica's?
  17. dougp

    dougp Active Member

    Boy, you are a REAL class act dcmusky.....Mr. Crooms.

    You come on this site and say "us guys" are P.Oed about the replica industry....did you just get off the boat?????

    What industry is do you think THIS IS?

    These guys here can do things with fish AND replicas you have never dreamed of.......Mr. Crooms......

    You say "Doug & Marty promote killing fish for their profit and even go as far as to try to persuade people to go the skin route BY PRICING".......PRICING!!!LOL!!!

    You ARE dillusional......and unfortunately, obviously a deceitful person who cares nothing about facts, fairness, or the truth.

    Would you care to state your case on just how I persuade people to choose a skin mount by my pricing...??

    Do you have a clue as to what my pricing is?

    I think if you make charges such as that you certainly can substantiate them....or retract them with an apology....thank you very much!! ;D ;D

    This is a perfect example of the tactics used by these zealots to try to intimidate and silence anyone who brings FACTS to the table that doesn't fit their little C&R agenda.

    You and some of your friends are simply "verbal mobsters" with no regard for civility.

    If any of you guys are interested in seeing just how these "icons of the musky industry" operate and discuss issues of a differing viewpoint check out these links to discussions I've had in the past on a musky discussion board....very telling and enlightening.

    http://www.thenextbite.com/node/12468 this is one that Paul B chimed in on. See how they took the counsel of a "World Champion" taxidermist about skin mounts.



    Some of these are archived in reverse so start at the last page for the beginning...........seems similar to a lot of the thinking on that board also.

  18. dougp

    dougp Active Member

    Josh...X2.. LOL!!

    Kevin....some of these guys in this "movement" are just nasty and will do or say anything to smear someone that doesn't dance to their tune. Their attitudes are bad for the fishing industry and a disgrace to all the genuine and sincere anglers who want to know the truth about issues and not propaganda.

    Read the links I posted......at least page through. You'll get the drift, Mr. Crooms is in there, along with his other friends. These guys are out of control..."activists" with little regard for reality.

    I'll have to be off the 'puter til morn...see you then.

    Oh BTW....Mr. Crooms, maybe you can explain why no one here can register @ muskytooth. Johnny Dadson specifically invited me.....I can't get on. Doesn't he like me anymore? ;D ;D ;)

    One more thing Mr. dcmusky...you DID get ONE thing right. You recognized the talent of DanB. However, while complimenting his awesome wood sculpture, you neglected TO MENTION the tremendous artistic talent DanB also displays in his SKIN MOUNTS & his REPLICA work.........seems you have somewhat of a selective vision and memory, or was that just a "brain fart?"......hhhhhhhhhmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm ;)

  19. FishArt

    FishArt Well-Known Member

    Yeah, I was going to comment on the same thing. There's a REASON why certain taxidermists and their replicas are cheaper and that's all I'm going to say!

    I know I said I was going to stay out of this, but hey, I've got a few minutes here - lol!

    Dilusional is right DCMusky. I set my prices based on how much time and money I have into each fish. That hourly wage factors into what either a skin mount or replica costs the customer. And my prices are getting closer and closer each year as I tend to spend more and more time on each mount. It's truly the customers choice as to which one they want. Price is typically not a factor anyway. Why you ask? I'd say a good 80-90% (or more) potential customers have not researched their choices beforehand and have already decided whether or not they want a skin mount or replica well BEFORE contacting any of us. If anything, those that DO look at our work beforehand realize that a replica can look just as good as a skin mount (and visa versa)and MAY choose a replica instead of a skin mount. So, from that aspect I think if anything we're helping promote replicas and the release of fish. "Promoting killing"??? Give me a break. I offer both for my customers to choose.

    We all know C&R works and support it. Try to grasp that concept.

    You also have to realize that for me, my average customer is NOT the full-time musky chaser or musky guide and I take in only one or two musky skin mounts in a year. And a couple of musky replicas. Not that I need to justify to YOU IF I did take in a hundred skin mount muskies in a year - as long as they were legally caught. But, just so you know the marketplace is truly the driving factor on whether or not a fisherman chooses a replica or skin mount. Stating that we're promoting KILLING is ludicrous! Most customers have already made that choice LONG before contacting either Doug or I. It's the customer's choice. Most experienced musky fishermen and guides have already made that choice beforehand. And they SHOULD (go replica) because they've killed far more muskies (through delayed mortality) than my typical skin mount (musky) customer has. By far.

    I think the problem that you DCMusky and others fanatics have is you can't control other people and their choices. Legal choices. And it frustrates you. So, you resort to bullying techniques, lies and distorting the truth to attempt to convince or scare others into your ways. When in reality, you really only need to convince YOUR PEERS as you guys are REALLY the ones catching (and releasing) the bulk of the muskies. The weekend warrior who catches and keeps one or two skin mount muskies in his or her lifetime isn't denting YOUR (lol - that TRULY gets me!!!) fish...
  20. dougp

    dougp Active Member

    Sheesh, Marty are you actually trying to talk sense to this guy?????

    I think you are right on the money with this statement you just made

    "I think the problem that you DCMusky and others fanatics have is you can't control other people and their choices. Legal choices. And it frustrates you. So, you resort to bullying techniques, lies and distorting the truth to attempt to convince or scare others into your ways"

    BINGOOOO! It's strictly about Power and control with these schmucks.....!!

    All right I've got to go put some fish out to skin for tomorrow.........oh wait, Oooops, I've also got that REPLICA mooskeloonge to paint...man, so much to do...soooo little time. ;D :D