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Skin mounts & the C & R philosophy

Discussion in 'Fish Taxidermy' started by dougp, Sep 9, 2010.

  1. Perca

    Perca Well-Known Member

    I just wanted you good taxidermists to know that I am still here. This thread is SMOKIN'!!! [​IMG] I've been trying to post my verbose views but every time I try to "send" I get a red warning that while I was typing someone else posted a reply. I can't type any faster so next time I'll try to condense what I am trying to say.
  2. nate

    nate Active Member

    Was hoping to pst apic of a 50"er but all I could come up with is this measily little 47". Sorry for for the bad photo. I was by myself, cameraphone in one hand, rod in the other. You bet your a$$ when I get that 50, I'll be posting a pic of it deader than Abe Lincoln ;D on its way to the freezer! The muskies in Minnesota are on fire right now! If anyone wants a trophy to mount, nows the time! Sharpening my hooks right now for that big girl!! ;D

  3. DanB

    DanB New Member

    Doug, the word is skun not skin, LOL. Well, I visited the forum thenextbite.com and was reading a little bit and saw a post from dcmusky. WOW !!!! LOL !!! Some people really need to be educated. But here is a quote from him awhile back.

    " Guys that are big skin mount pushers in the taxidermy world don't have the artistic talent to be any good at replicas."

    For me replicas are easier to put together and paint.
  4. DanB

    DanB New Member

    Oh, and I push replicas and skin mounts (both) it doesn't matter to me which one the client chooses. If I push my wood carvings that means I have to kill a tree. ;D

    Oh well lets just try and get along. We all deal with the fish species.
  5. dcmusky

    dcmusky New Member

    So why do I find this?
    « Reply #4 on: December 13, 2007, 11:44:06 AM »


    Doug - I'm afraid you're pissing in the wind with these boneheads. You need to stay off those stupid boards and grab a beer instead. Your efforts are futile and will only result in a shorter lifespan due to the stress.

    I'm going up a buck or so an inch on replicas this year. And I will do this every year. Let's get 'em with the supply and demand thing. IF every fish taxidermist in the Chicago area (you and I???) does the same, they won't have any choice but to pay the price OR do a skin mount (which is cheaper with me at least). I'm sure we'll do fewer replicas, but at least we can get compensated fairly for them and perhaps this will ease the pain...

    Report to moderator Logged


    Marty Shimkus
    Fish Specialties Taxidermy

    Do you want to discuss this civilly or do you want to continue with the childish banter. Either way you guys are a blast & I'm having fun!
  6. dcmusky

    dcmusky New Member

    Do you have any evidence to back any of this up with? I'd love to see it, I'm ready to be a reformed killa.
  7. hodx

    hodx Herman Darr

    i was talking to a buddy of mine who moved to Minnesota, i plan to visit him and keep all the biggest muskies , we can catch in 30 days.....look out johnny D...I'll be there to collect....i emailed my buddy and he told me where to go and i told him to bring his whole family...that's more muskies for me to skin and mount...see you musky guys soon.
  8. A- Fish

    A- Fish Stehling's Taxidermy

    I do not expect you to understand the complexities of the replica market, but it is a bit more complicated then you might think. Most shops that have large collections of molds are more then willing to to sell blanks....in others words you can find muskey replicas. There are some issues with quality you would never see or know to look for, but I won't get into that. Some foreign blanks are poor quality, but they are catching up quick, and are better then 50% of the blanks made in this country already. For you it's a good thing.....the cost of replicas will go down, but for me it means no future in the replica market, or at least not a very lucrative one.

    I hope your comment " But I also see some paint by numbers fish skinners and it seems all they want to hear is Kill baby kill " wasn't directed toward me. I have been trying to keep this respectful . We have worked too hard and been in this biz too long to stomach a smart azz remark like that.

    I am giving you an open invitation to stop by our shop to see how much work goes into a good skin mount. I think you would appreciate it more.
  9. dcmusky

    dcmusky New Member

    Honestly Aaron I myself couldn't make decent stick figure, But it seems to me that you guy's don't appreciate the C&R work that has been done by muskie people. My comment was more towards The ones slamming me and I fully expect it on this side of the fence. Don't worry I have big shoulders and don't offend easily. I will listen to all of your incite but I don't stand for unfounded accusations and bad science as a reason to kill a 20+ yr old fish just to satisfy ones ego. If you cater to the C&R guys they will spend their cash with you but some (ie. Doug) go against higher size limits and you really have to wonder what their motivation is? Still waiting for the evidence of fishermen being assaulted by C&R freaks or all the fish being eaten by the big bad muskie. I will be respectful but remember respect is earned not given.
  10. A- Fish

    A- Fish Stehling's Taxidermy

    Thats fine Dan.
    I do appreciate the work done by C & R people. Obviously a fish like muskies really can benefit from it if it is done correctly. I think it is a bit of a shame that all these big fish end up rotting at the bottom of the lake when they die of old age. I wish there was some way they could be skin mounted and not go to waste.

    We have catered heavily to the C & R crowd in the past, doing over 200 replicas a year for clients across the nation, many of which were muskies. We also had quite an extensive mold line. The economy and the other factors I have already mentioned made us lose interest. As I stated before, skin mount muskies are a very small part of our business. Even back in the late 70's and 80's it was small compared to the other species we normally work on. My biggest concern is not with C & R muskey fishing, but the other popular species of fish that are more abundant. Skin mount bass, walleye, salmon, trout etc are what keep the wheels turning at our shop and the paychecks flowing to our employees.

    If I seem like an advocate for skin mounts, I am. No one else is going to care if I stay in business. Thats why many of us on here are touchy about the whole C & R debate----we are eating off of this. This is our profession.
  11. nate

    nate Active Member

    Crab Crazy, give me a shout. I can point you in the right direction!!
  12. FishArt

    FishArt Well-Known Member

    Now DCMusky there you go distorting the truth again! Your cut and paste of what I said a while back obviously was said tongue and cheek. I'm not going to take the time to fish up the original post. But, I suspect there were several "LOL's" throughout that post solidifying the fact that my post was stated in jest. Or it was understood it was in jest from a previous post(s). You fanatics always do this crap. You distort the truth and downright lie at times. Calling us "killers" is analogous to calling a funeral home director a "killer"! It's downright stupid and ignorant. Much like most of what spews from your keyboard...
  13. dougp

    dougp Active Member

    Marty, that's what we can expect from guys like Mr. Crooms....................

    Great posts Aaron. Very informative and respectful.

    Dan Crooms, if I read your post right, you asked if we could discuss this in a civil manner.

    YES.....but without unfounded erroneous accusations. I'm not sure you can do that. It seems you need to distort and ignore certain facts to make your case.

    As Aaron & Marty have mentioned, muskies are an almost insignificant part of my business also. I don't care what you guys do.

    What I object to is ridiculous statements by some of you demeaning skin mounts and any angler who may choose keep a legal fish. This is illustrated by the quote from YOU in the post by DanB above.

    You show an obviously uninformed, mean spirited bias towards those of us who have spent most of our lives in a career to preserve God's creatures to the best of our ability for sportsmen and women who place a value on what we do.

    I have said, as has Marty and others that we support C&R and have all along. What you and you friends will NOT discuss is the fact that C&R is NOT a "no kill" practice.

    You seem to live in some "fantasy world" along with Bambi and friends. A world where you can yank 5/0 hooks into the mouth, eyes or gills of a fish while it stuggles to escape as it builds lactic acid and fractures capillaries in fins and throughout it's body. Finally at boatside it goes into the latest high tech net and is lifted by it's branchiostegals and craddled like a baby as it's protective slime is transferred to the front of your gore tex raingear. Photos and then she's released to fight again.....maybe, if she doesn't die a day or two or more later from any number of issues received during the capture.

    I've enjoyed my associations with the musky fraternity in the past and I have supported some chapters of Muskies Inc. with 1000's of dollars in contributions to their fund raisers. I've enjoyed reading the muskie boards and offering whatever info I could about questions I felt qualified to answer.

    I enjoyed all that and more until people such as yourself decided to ruin the enjoyment with your radical views with no tolerance for anothers point of view.

    You refuse to discuss rationally and civilly any question posed that threatens your hard line thinking.....

    I'vce been on other musky boards with an attempt to discuss these things and was villified , yes, by you and your friends.

    I, and many of, us on here are capable of intrelligent discussion of some of our differences. I haven't been able to do that on the muskie boards only because of a few who spew hate and venom for any challenge to any of your views on either C&R or taxidermy.

    Sure, we can talk.....try and keep emotion in check and discuss facts and ANSWER questions... ;D ;D ;D

    BTW....I charge $18.00 per inch for skin mounts and $16.00 per inch for replicas. How does that promote skin mounts and killing fish as you claim I do?

    Will you be kind enough and courageous enough to answer my questions and defend the innaccurate statements you've made.

    Or not................

    We would still like to be able to register at muskytooth..........Seems you don't want us there...???????????

  14. Johnny Dadson

    Johnny Dadson New Member


    I sent you a note about how to join Muskytooth.

    I charge by the inch. How tall are you?

  15. Perca

    Perca Well-Known Member

    Let's turn the tables and ask a few questions like this. 1) Show us the evidence that proves that the removal of even ONE 20 year old muskie from a lake has a detrmental impact on the population there. The essence of what C&R radicals say is that NO XL muskies should be kept. The keeping of ONE gets their bowels in an uproar. Where is the data that proves that NO muskies should be kept? 2) The internet is full of verbal attacks by C&R fanatics who jump all over a fisherman for posting a photo of a big fish he caught. C&R extremists don't "educate" a person who chooses to keep a big fish, they HUMILIATE him. They ridicule and insult him for HIS CHOICE to keep a legal fsh. What another fisherman chooses to do with what he catches is NONE OF THEIR DAMN BUSINESS, but these C&R extremsts persist anyway. How rude and obnoxious can some people get???? Verbal confrontations can be a pathway to physical violence. So my question is; Why don't C&R radicals realize that demeaning another guy for what he chooses to do with his fish is incredibly rude and obnoxious? 3) Please provide statistics that show the success rate for catch & keep muskies fishermen on Georgian Bay...specifically, data that contains the number of individual muskies kept in a year. You guys keep using the argument that "If every fisheman kept a muskie, it would destroy the population." No one believes that "every" fisherman will take a muskie. From what is commonly published, a BIG muskie is the fish of a lifteime. If catching one is a rare event, then the agrument of "What if every...." is nothing but a self serving concoction to convince the gullible. 4) Why is a muskie any more important to an aquatic ecosystem that any other species? Almost every body of water has an "apex predator" and in most waters it is NOT a muskie. And please provide documentation that shows that muskies have no impact on other species of fishsees where they coexist. Our DNR has stocked muskies in a number of rather small (under 2000 acres) local lakes, and the quality of perch/crappie/bluegill fishing has dropped significantly. There is no proof of the role of muskies in these situations, but it does make sense. 5) The surgical muskie guide makes a living taking fishermen out for a muskie. The more muskies there are, the better the fishing ought to be. The better the fishing, the happier the customer is. The happier the customer is, the more likly it is he will spread the word about his great trip. The better the "word of mouth" reports are, the more business the surgical muskie guide gets. IT IS IN THE BEST BUSINESS INTERESTS of the surgical muskie guide that every muskie is released. His motivation to practice and promote C&R is financial. So with that in mind, why it is a crime worthy of verbal abuse that a taxidermist offers skin mounting of muskies as a part of HIS business. The hypocrisy of C&R extremists for attacking taxidermists for offering/promoting skin mounts of muskies is glaringly obvious.
    I acknowledge DougP and Aaron for "welcoming" the two C&R muskie guys to our forum and for staying on the high road in the face of some pretty rude insults. Me? I don't welcome extremists who register on this site for one day just to ridicule us(and other fishermen) for not making the same choices they do. After all of these pages of this thread it's plain to see that there is NO MIDDLE GROUND with the mindset of C&R extremists. The good news is that these radicals are a mere fringe group from the mainstream of fishermen who keep fish to eat or mount. The bad news is that the position of strict C&R is dragging the sport of fishing on a slippery slope towards animal rights. After all, what's more kind to muskies than releasing every single one is to never hook them in the first place. I'd like to take this opportunity to invite the two C&R priests to leave this website and return to their cult.
  16. dougp

    dougp Active Member

    Good post Perca......don't look for any reasonable informative response. ;D

    Johnny D....I have no message from you. Where did you send me a note?

    Is it a secret... ??? why not post on our forum how to join muskytooth? A few guys have expressed an interest in registering.

    As far as your last comment.......wow.... ::) ::)

    Actually I'm beginning to think Perca is right in that you guys just aren't worth the effort.

    You are a cult and a obstacle to honest communication. You've done more harm than good to your cause and Muskies Inc. than you can see.

    With just a few posts, you've shown, essentially the whole taxidermy world, just how radical and skewed your views are and to what extreme lengths you will go in your indoctrination efforts.

    Good job......

  17. RDA

    RDA Active Member

    well theres bunny huggers and MUSKIE huggers both from the same shallow, murky genetic pool...... ;D
  18. Brian W

    Brian W Active Member

    Lot of good reading material here but what really ticks me off is Dan B not praticing C&R on all those defenseless trees........ ;D.......
  19. And don't people realize that if they pass up those 10 point bucks that they may grow into a 12 pointer for someone else to enjoy! LOL ;D
  20. Perca

    Perca Well-Known Member