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beginners giving advice

Discussion in 'Beginners' started by choo choo charlie, Dec 26, 2010.

  1. choo choo charlie

    choo choo charlie I feel pretty good for the way I feel

    I honestly believe that until a person has at least some experience with actual taxidermy that they should refrain from giving any kind of advice to one who is just starting out.
    there are more than enough actual taxidermist on this site who are more than willing to help these folks.
  2. George

    George The older I get, the better I was.

    LOL Charlie, it's usually because they've already gotten bad advice from some other "expert" that we're having to correct. This is the snap together generation now. They take a deer in, skin it out, and send it to a flesher and then a tanner who's supposed to tell them what form to use and they put it on the form and they are one. I especially love the guys who're posing as "tanneries" that are springing up all over. Oh well, back to my dry preserving.

  3. hntr78

    hntr78 New Member

    As a beginner I have to agree with you to a point. I have been on this site for a couple of years but have only given advice twice on here. Not because I didn't know what I was saying but because I had noticed several replies to the thread from begginers and not who I recognized on here as ones that I would take the advice. It's ultimately up to the one who takes the advice and applies it. I wouldn't make an investment because a bum on the street told me a stock was good or not. If you want to learn qualtiy and produce quality you will find those people who know quality and take their advice. I have taken advice from you george and am using this time to thank you and the other great taxidermists for this advice. I have weeded through alot of bums though.
  4. DCon

    DCon New Member

    Advice is generally free, given from someone who is or has experience in the subject at hand. An example of something a beginner might be able to offer advice in, same as anyone else, might be use of Krowtann(successfully, I might add). They may well have more experience at it then some old fart that thought he knew too much to even read the directions. That said, I think most(99.9%) of the beginners here take advice from anyone they can get it from, some they absorb some they don't.
  5. George

    George The older I get, the better I was.

    I see DCon still hasn't stopped snorting the Krowtann. Simply riding one for the first time won't help you explain what to do in case of a train wreck. (That's intended to be a parable, not an analogy, though it's pretty close to both. LMAO)
  6. nibjones

    nibjones Join your States Taxidermy Assoc.

    Couldn't agree more Charlie. You see it all to often on here.
  7. gab

    gab Active Member

    i agree that they shouldn't give advice like they know everything,but a person of any skill level sharing a personal experience with a situation does have a value.learning by others mistakes is alot easier than learning by your own.
  8. choo choo charlie

    choo choo charlie I feel pretty good for the way I feel

    well some of them just have no "skill level" to use as a starting point!
    the "taxidermist" who haven't mounted anything since their daddy caught them with cousin Lucy are the ones I am talking about.
    I will quote another member of this forum with what has become a favorite catch phrase for me to mutter under my breath several times a day,
    Ya can't fix stupid!
  9. DCon

    DCon New Member

    Basicly, your saying that beginners are stupid if they post about their experience on here? Pretty broad brush your painting with, when you really have no knowledge of how much the guys giving advice do have or don't have.

    George, I could give you advice about krowtann but it wouldn't help. I could point to several well qualified individuals (that are more than qualified to post advice here) that use it and use it well....but it would do no good to someone with a closed mind on the subject. I used that only as one example. There are others that could have been used. Another example might have been hunting deer. I see lots of fairly new hunters that wouldn't consider shooting a penalty buck on a expensive trophy deer hunt in Cananda. If one of them had offered you advice before your recent trip North, you likely would have turned your nose up at it as well. Point is, you can't judge a person experience level by their posts on a internet site. Or their ignorance or IQ,
  10. choo choo charlie

    choo choo charlie I feel pretty good for the way I feel

    Dcon before you get all bunched up you should understand that I was not calling any one person stupid, that is simply a descriptive phrase that could fit a broad adiaunce.
    maybe it is just the way that I was raised,,,,,, shut up and learn!
    why is it that every time a person enters a new field they are suddenly a highly qualified professional!
    now you go give George a call and give him your highly qualified Krotan advice and when he slaps you back to earth for disrespect don't come crying to me LOL
    I shudder to think of all I would miss out on if I suddenly knew it all and lost the ability to learn!
  11. tbeam

    tbeam New Member

    I am no expert at taxidermy, Yes I have seen posts on here asking what animal is the best to start with and then next week they have become an expert. Then a month later they post a question about something that a month earlier they were an expert about. But I believe that you never stop learning. Yes there is a lot of knowledge on this site and yes I have learned things that have helped me and also made it alittle harder for me too. I may have had an experience that someone that has been in the bussiness for 25 yrs may have not had due to what there proccess for fleshing,tanning,thinning,or finishing. But then again maybe they have seen it and learned the hard way back in the day. Dont get me wrong the old timers have left us with a better road to travel on and it would be very hard to learn if it wasnt for there advise and knowledge..
  12. George

    George The older I get, the better I was.

    DC gets his BVD's in a wad all the time Charlie. He intentionally used the Krowtann in an attempt to take a cheap shot at me. When that backfired, he came up with the "penalty" buck scenario (what the hell ever a "penalty buck" is outside a game farm or high fence) but as this is about my 6th trip into Canada, I doubt he or anyone he knows could offer me "advice" that I'm not already acutely aware of. (BTW, the buck had a 16 inch spread and had 11 scorable points.)

    DCon, I know some extremely qualified people who DON'T use Krowtann, so I guess I"m missing your point. Hell, Michael P used DP on deer and his stuff would match most people on here anyway. I know Don Stevens once mounted a deer using NOTHING and the last I heard it still looks as good as the ones he mounted with tanned and DP hides to test the processes.

    We all know there are exceptions to any rule and many times, a beginner shares an experience that is not in the same vein as what he was referring to.
  13. DCon

    DCon New Member

    I don't see any beginners saying they "know it all", only the 'experienced' posters. still, you can't determine experience level just by what they post here. As for George, I'm sure he's one of the best taxidermist in the world, nobody is saying he isn't. But it's one thing to be the best and another to strive to be better. When you look at a new technique or a new product and scoff at it just because you don't do it that way, it show ignorance....no matter if your a beginner or vet.

    And George, you know damn well what a penalty buck is. At my camp, it would be one like the one you shot. But you already knew that. You made a mistake, pure and simple. Nobody on their 6th trip to Canada would shoot one like that knowing what the potential is there. Shows only that even though your a legend in your own mind that you can still make a beginners mistake.

    Again, K-tann was used as an example. Nobody has ever posted that you have to use it or your a quack. So, Micheal doesn't use it, yada yada.....there's many more that tried it and used it well, both newbies and experienced guys. Their advice is just as valid as someone who never used it successfully or won't even try to use it.....as we see here often. Again, just an example.

    I'm out, I only responded because a lot of you guys have forgotton when you didn't really know it all, like you do now.
  14. Cole

    Cole Amateur Taxidermist

    I'd be curious to know what advice DCon could give on Krowtann that can't be found on the label?
  15. George

    George The older I get, the better I was.

    Actually DCon, I DON'T know what a penalty buck is. I know the fairytale guys like you persist in enforcing such a scheme, but when a client pays $4000 to shoot A DEER, the penalty has already been paid. Sure, I shot a deer I didn't intend to, but for that type of money, I'd shove any "penalty" assessed to me up the outfitters ass if he tried to enforce it. That $4000 was mine and if I elected to pay that for him to allow me the opportunity to freeze my ass off and go home with nothing, that too is MY CHOICE, not his. I don't hunt places who pretend to "manage" herds with "penalties" placed on paying clients and I encourage my clients to do the same. This is about as phoney as that Drury clan espousing "ethical" and "fair chase" hunts. Ted Nugent isn't one of my heros, but I endorse his opinion that they and all who play their games are hypocrites and apologists for the sport of hunting. I wasn't "upset" when I spent about an hour trying to find my deer (though more than one person has told me I should have allowed the coyotes and wolves to find it and continue my hunt as it was the last days of the season) and when I found it, I wrote it off as a trophy of my survival in such bitter cold. It had a 7 1/2 by 22 neck on a longhaired Canadian hide that can and will be mounted to remind me of being humbled by circumstances.

    I'm NOT a great taxidermist. Far from it, but anything I suggest is something I've experienced. Many times that flies in the face of others who do superior work, but it doesn't mean it doesnt work and didn't work for ME. I have a Krowtann hide awaiting me that was shipped in here and it looks good. My personal experience in 2000, however, wasn't that good and I simply won't revisit what failed for me initially. Especially when I have other products that HAVEN'T failed me.
  16. Manny

    Manny New Member

    I have only been at this about 5 years now and have mounted probably 50 to 60 deer so far....
    I still consider myself a beginner ( In Areas )

    The advise I took from people was good and bad, but it was my own trials and errors that helped the most.
    Somethings just work for others better than some.

    To be honest if that someone giving advise had a website. I would look at it and judge him and his advise by his work.
    Take advise from who you feel is worthy to give it.

    The beginner himself should know this.... If not, he himself is not looking deeper into any of the questions being asked.
    Nobodies word is the gospel...at anything.
  17. Jackson1814

    Jackson1814 Active Member

    I"ve gotta jump in here. As you can see I'm a "bronze" member and have just over 100 posts. I practice Charlie's theory, "shut up and learn". I've been a beginner for over 3 years and expect to be a beginner for many more years. I've posted and and received advised from many of you that I believe have great knowledge and experience. I've also received advise from those who are also beginners and I know, from cruising this web site everyday, that they are/were beginners. I've seen "beginners" post just to up the number of post shown on their profile. Then, all of the sudden you see this person spitting out advise on things that I question their experience on. I know whose information I trust and also those that I know don't have the experience or knowledge to be answering information requests. I just choose to sit back and read, I guarantee you can find the answer on here to 99.9 % of any question you have. I still feel like I know everyone on here. Hell, sometimes I get on here just to get a laugh for the day. Some of you are pretty comical :D :D. Anyway, just my two cents. Hope you all had a Merry Christmas and have a wonderful New Year!!!!
  18. Pretty common on here to have someone giving pointers and advice on mounting a deer only to have them post a month later wanting a critique on their first deer mount. WTH.

  19. 3bears

    3bears Well-Known Member

    Are you only allowed to give advice if you have won blue ribbons in the masters? If that is the case this elitist BS has gone too far. I doubt that anyone that gives advice on here has mastered in all areas. When someone asks a question on this forum, they are looking help. If you think that you might have some info that might help them you should be free to tell them. This forum I believe was intended to let all of us in this trade communicate with others. I may not have won any masters yet, but I have mounted enough animals to have gained some knowledge in what works for me and what doesn't. It seems that if you don't have a crapload of posts nobody thinks that you know anything. I don't give advice on things I don't know anything about.
  20. antlerman

    antlerman NTA Life Member #0118

    No one I know gives all they know for FREE, unless they don't know much to start with.