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Metal Ear Tag

Discussion in 'Deer and Gameheads' started by mooser, Jan 9, 2011.

  1. A guy dropped of an elk last year that I did a ped open mouth for. He was suppose to have shot it with his bow. Has been scored and placed in pope and young. While turning the ears I found a metal tag that had "Wisconsin" and a number on the other side. He first claimed to have shot it in Texas and since has changed it and submitted it as a New Mexico bull. My understanding is that no fenced or captured animals can be submitted to P&Y or B&C. I could be wrong but I have heard of wild elk in TX. Now if it was actually shot in NM, why would it have a Wisconsin ear tag on it. It was a 350" 6 pt bull that was shot on a 2-3 day hunt that cost $5,000. The antlers had red and green paint marks rubbed on the antlers. With all that being said, my opinion is he shot the bull on a high fenced ranch in TX and is now claiming as a free range NM bull. How might a person track a metal ear tag?
  2. antlerman

    antlerman NTA Life Member #0118

    Elk are registered with the USDA Contact them with the tag number and they can track it back to the breeder.

  3. George

    George The older I get, the better I was.

    Mooser, I have to ask you...why does it matter? Did he leave a deposit? Is he paying top dollar? You should show a little prudence in how far you look. You could end up losing a valuable customer. Record books don't mean anything to me and since B&C got on this "fair chase" kick, I could care less about what they accept or don't accept. P&Y has gotten almost the same with their asterisks and disqualifying animals shot with tracer arrows or bow mounted range finders. What the hell does any of that have to do with the deer? But I digress. I would caution you to walk carefully on this one. If you want to be a bunny cop, that's one thing but you imply it wasn't taken illegally that you know of. If you want to be a taxidermist, Obama has the code phrase: Don't ask, don't tell.
  4. I wouldn't say a thing but "your elk is done, you can pick him up anytime". He might try to get a bigger one next year.
  5. skinner26

    skinner26 Active Member

    X2 George
    This could really turn out bad.You piss that man off and before you know it he has told every one he knows and so on and so forth. Who is goin to want to bring you work thin.

    TROPHY SHACK Phillip cole

    dont bit the hand
  7. antlerman

    antlerman NTA Life Member #0118

    Yeah, I agree with the others. Even though I told you how to track the animal, I wouldn't suggest raising a ruckus. Always has a bad ending for the snitch.
  8. DCon

    DCon New Member

    So you loose a dishonest, lying, and possibly poaching customer in the process.....do the right thing and make sure this animal is not put in the record book. You surely don't need the business bad enough to cover up for the idiot. Contact P & Y and check to see if it's been scored and entered. It needs to be disallowed if so. Honesty is a virtue and will pay off for you in the long run.
  9. ANDY

    ANDY Well-Known Member

    Mooser this where you say nice elk and get your paycheck. Ive seen alot of big deer, supposedly bowkills with small bullet holes
    in the shoulder and never said a word, we dont get paid to do the game wardens job. These hunters can't hide what
    they shoot them with from a taxidermist. Just like George said the p&y and b&c are turning into a joke anymore so
    why get involved. I know a guy that shot a late season B & C deer and found both antlers on the blood trail before he
    found the deer, got repaired , mounted hanging in his den with a nice big B & C certificate hanging under it, who cares.
  10. nibjones

    nibjones Join your States Taxidermy Assoc.

    He hired you to mount the elk. Not to be an investigator. IMO, keep your nose out of it.
  11. Wayne R

    Wayne R NRA and B&C Life Member

    A dishonest or unethical customer is not one I'm interested in having. As with any records there a rules or policies that need to be followed, so that qualifying for the books, will actually mean something. If you don't like the polices then simply don't enter the books. As far as saying something about it, like anything else, you better make sure all the information you have in front of you, is correct. It would be as wrong to accuse someone of something they didn't do, as it is for them to wrongfully do it. I just don't get why folks need to cheat to get in the books, it says a lot about their integrity. There are always a few who will ruin it for the rest, and those are the folks that the nonhunting society will pick up on, and form their opinion of hunters as a whole. As an official measurer, I wouldn't spread hearsay, but if it is without a doubt something that was wrongfully entered, you know what I'm going to do about.
  12. fozziebear

    fozziebear Active Member

    Perfect! Well put Wayne , But I think there is an awful lot of entries that are not on the up'n up, I mean c'mon this is only one situation with an elk. Imagine how many shady entries there are with whitetail ..........This is gonna be a 7 page post in no time!!!
  13. alexm

    alexm New Member

    If you want to investigate why not call the customer and ask Him Rather than every one else he's the one paying You !
  14. DCon

    DCon New Member

    Wisconsin is a CWD state, that elk could have been moved or dumped illegally. It could have been tagged or checked in illegally, which is a Lacy violation. No telling what else happened in between Wisconsin and Texas with this animal?

    If you have it in your shop, your taking a risk. When a warden comes for a look of your records, what you going to say about it?
  15. joeym

    joeym Old Murphey

    x2...I'd toss that tag in the garbage and forget about it. Some of the stuff I get has very screwed up ears from taggings. I hate the tags, but I like the critters they are attached to!
  16. George

    George The older I get, the better I was.

    DConn, there you go again, ASSuming something. "Possible" Lacey act violations would only apply to WILD game animals. IF it were a pen raised animal ("with ear tags") it's simply a stock animal that the game farm owner has documentation on. But again, you're trying to play Sherlock Holmes.

    Wayne, in your position, I understand totally and with you, it IS different. You have a vested interest in both sides of the argument.

    The POINT of this discussion is to remind you that the majority of business that any one of us gets comes from "word of mouth" advertising. Sure, some of you can pontificate about "cheating" but in the real world, as someone already stated, snitches are held in the same regard. This guy has some friends and they have friends and they have friends....... Eventually your name will be used as someone not to take their mounts to. You're in BUSINESS. Stick to YOUR BUSINESS.
  17. a7d1

    a7d1 New Member

    I would do both. I would look into the animals origin but only for my own knowledge. I would also keep my mouth shut and mount/get paid for the animal to be mounted. The knowledge may be an asset to you at a later date when dealing with future mounts from this individual.
  18. I am just speculating but i do believe that elk are considered an exotic species here in texas, that excludes them from every record book except safari club. That's probably why he changed from shooting the animal in texas to new mexico. Unless you are worried about possible CWD issue, get the paycheck and move on. As far as the customers honesty, he probably fishes too so if his mouth is moving, he's lying! his money spends just the same ;D
  19. deerhunterdon

    deerhunterdon New Member

    If you know he broke the Law , its your job to protect your own butt. Pand Y rules isnt the Law. we cant control what other people do and trying to, can make your life miserable. As long as your not part of his alleged scheme , you can shave tomorrow! lol.
  20. antlerman

    antlerman NTA Life Member #0118

    Ok, I have a little story for you. As many of you know, I do antler replication. How good are my replica's? Well, let's see. 3 years ago I was in attendance at the Illinois Deer and Turkey Classic. Long story short, I was walking around in the display area where all the deer head entries were hanging after being officially scored and recognized one of my replica racks mounted on a deer head. At first I assumed the guy who killed this deer had brought it up to have it officially scored. That's cool. Then I looked at the name and the name didn't register with me. Then I remembered that this rack was one half of a locked horn set. Obviously my radar lights started flashing on and off. Every rack is unique and different. This particular rack had a worm hole in the back side of the left main beam. I looked and sure enough that worm hole was present. My rat detector was now going off on high alert. I approached the head scorer there who I have know personally for many years whose name is Tim also, and said: Tim, you have one of my replica's out there for entry in P & Y and is also currently leading in the bow kill typical category. He laughed at first and said no way. Then he realized, I wasn't kidding about it. He asked me then, could I prove it. I said, I can. Take it off the wall and lets scratch the back of it with my knife and see. We did that and sure enough it was my replica. Obviously the guy was disqualified and was not awarded what he had come to accomplish. Now that is a blatant attempt to gain something by ill intent. I never told the man that actually killed the real deer, but if I had, just how mad do you think he would have been? Of course I knew nothing about the fraudulent man, but if I had, I'm sure an ass kicking would have been coming his way. Of course the scorers there were blown away that someone would attempt this, and that they themselves couldn't tell that it was a replica. Now they ask me to come every year just to make sure this doesn't happen again.

    To conclude, my story is quite different than yours. In this case, I did squeal. Why? Because the man was using my work to steal from another man who was in fact my customer, deer rack to be entered as his own. There was no question about legal kill, me playing cop, or any game and fish laws being broken. This was just a case of ethic's, but he was involving me by using my work to cheat the system for his own personal gain. I too felt violated.
    In your case, where do you feel violated? Is there anything this guy has done that makes a difference in your life or business? If not, don't subject yourself into his business. He has to live with himself. Just remember this; Winners never cheat and cheaters never win. If he is truly a cheat, you will not stop him. he'll just move on down to the next taxidermist and spend his money there and keep on cheating. I know for a fact that I mount poached deer. It is not my job to inform DNR everytime I think I am doing so. That is their job to catch the cheaters. In the replica story above, I had an obligation simply because it was my work that was being used to cheat with. To me, that is a big difference because it involved me as the maker of said replica. In your case, I would mount the elk and collect my money and keep my mouth shut, because anything you can say at this point is not only hearsay, but also an assumption. No good for you can come out of this. You accuse the wrong guy and he may come back to burn your house down. In other words: Pick and choose your battles.