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neutralizing process

Discussion in 'Tanning' started by murph, Mar 20, 2011.

  1. murph

    murph Member

    I searched and didn't find what i needed so I turned to the guys that know tanning. Need a bit of help or advice.... I have 2 deer capes pickled with the Mckenzie acid and are all 1st time shaved today and back in the pickle for 1 more day. I need some help with the neutralization formula on these capes. I'm gonna 2nd shave and final flesh and liqua-tan them tomorrow. I just want to make sure I have a good formula to insure I get a lot of stretch and properly neutralized. I have been using Krowtann and actually kinda forgot some things.... Just want a good result for these mounts Any help is appreciated.

    Thanks All,
  2. gunner62

    gunner62 Gunners Buckhorn Taxidermy

    1 tb spoon baking soda per gallon of water, I also use 1/4 of salt per gallon of water, I use a 3 gallon mix with good results. Soak for 30 minutes and agitate every 10 minutes

  3. verne

    verne Well-Known Member

    Call McKenzie they have tec help.
  4. RTF

    RTF Active Member

    Now this is where I get confused. I thought you didn't pickle prior to using Krowtan ??? And as far as neutralizing that was done after the tan.
  5. murph

    murph Member

    guess i didn't explain that quite well enough..... USED to use Krotann.... I am needing the neutralization set up for Mckenzie acid and liquatan.... sorry for that confusing statement....

  6. cyclone

    cyclone Posts: 400001

    Surely a recipe for failure....
  7. bearrug48

    bearrug48 Active Member

    Neutralizing is done after pickle / before tanning
  8. been doing it that way for years thats the way marcus zimmerman taught me. guess you dont know much about tanning
  9. cyclone

    cyclone Posts: 400001

    So, you're just using plain old water?

    pH 7 when you start?

    What is the final pH of the water after neutralizing?

    Yes, a recipe for disaster unless you have some really heavily buffered water..or are using about 100 gallons/cape.
  10. yes plain old well water the ph is still 7 after neutralizing it dosent change its neutral i do 5 capes in about 20 gallons of water never had any problems thats the way marcus dose it and did for years. try it u will like it.
  11. cyclone

    cyclone Posts: 400001

    Thank you, No.

    I think I'll do it the proper way..
  12. Rhino

    Rhino Too many irons in the fire will put the fire out!

    Marcus is a Master Taxidermist, but his neutralisation method is flawed.

    This is where I dis-agree with some folks that think being a Taxidermist, is some how a pre-requisite for being a good tanner.

    I cant count the times that I have seen some of the best Taxidermists in the world, giving out bad tanning instructions in print, or at a seminar.

    All the paint-on tans that I am aware of, have tannages in them, that require skin pH values of 5 -7 for good tan fixation. Plain water can not, and will not foot the bill. Maybe if you left the skin in the water with salt for 24hrs, but I wouldnt try that either. ???


    A pickled cape has 100,000 times the concentration of hydrogen ions, than your tap water. Do you really think 15 minutes in plain water is going to overcome this? The plain water method is yeilding little to NO tan and oil fixation, and you are basically mounting nothing but a pickled skin.
  13. Rhino

    Rhino Too many irons in the fire will put the fire out!

    Sorry Murph.

    What Gunner said will work fine(1oz soda, 1/4lb salt per gal-30min). Folks lacking in shaving skill, and leave their skins a little thicker, can bump the soda up to 2oz per gal, and up the the time to 45min. Same with larger skins, like elk, etc. This will aid in greater tan and oil penetration.(with a paint-on)
  14. cyclone

    cyclone Posts: 400001

    Toss some bran flakes in there while you're at it..

    Are you using the planer blades to flesh it?

  15. taxi88, if you're putting pickled capes in plain water, and your pH remains at 7, I think you might want to check your meter, or get new papers, something is wrong with that picture.
  16. i alwaws have fresh paper i drain and spin them out before they go into the water. not enough formic left in the hides to raise the ph.
  17. Steve Rotramel

    Steve Rotramel We got some radical rebels in this county!

    ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha good one Hudson.

    We're talking about the difference between dilution, and neutralization.

    You can dilute an acid solution and bring the pH up by adding fresh water. Or, you can bring the pH up by adding a base that actively neutralizes the acid.

    Diluting the solution with a pickled hide in it does very little to change the pH in the hide. Adding the base, however, actively neutralizes the acid in the skin, and that is what you're trying to accomplish.
  18. Steve Rotramel

    Steve Rotramel We got some radical rebels in this county!

    I think Keith is saying that the pH of the water should be lowered, not raised.

    If what you're saying is true, and I'm not disputing it, it simply illustrates how little effect the acid in the hide has on the solution. The reverse is also true - the fresh water will have very little effect on the acid in the cape.
  19. well all I'm saying is it works for me i get plenty of stretch and have never had any problems.(if it ain't broke don't fix it).
  20. Believe me, there is enough formic left in the skin to lower the pH, unless you're using a whole lot of water for a little bit of skin weight. Doesn't make a bit of difference to me what you do taxi88, if you're fine with it by all means keep doing it that way, it's just that you have a couple people that know a wee bit more about acid in the skins and the process than your taxidermist mentor does trying to give a little helpful advice.