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my own krowtann expirement

Discussion in 'Tanning' started by RDA, Apr 5, 2011.

  1. RDA

    RDA Active Member

    left an elk hide in for three months, and a deer for over a year- didnt even stir the deer for the last few months. Both came out perfect -hair tight and nice white tanned skin....let the flogging begin... ::) :D ;)
     
  2. nitt

    nitt Member

    OMG here we go again with this. ITS a pickle use some tanning oil on it n its fine I used it with no problems either. If it works for you great if it doesnt DONT use it!
     

  3. Rick Carter

    Rick Carter Administrator


    REAL BAD WRONG!!! It's NOT just a pickle. It has a tanning agent. That is why you can only tan 1 hide. The tanning agent is absorbed into the skin. I bet you got your misinformation from your misinformed basemant chemist. lol
     
  4. Shooterschoice

    Shooterschoice work is for people who dont fish

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    i love krowtan i use it on deer fox coyote coons everything! its awesome i left a deer in it for 3 months and it still mounted up wonderful!
     
  5. Just because something has an agent that can be used for tanning in it, doesn't mean it's a tan, it still needs to be used properly to tan. Aluminum sulphate is used by people in the soil for things like roses, so does that mean you're tanning your roses?
     
  6. George

    George The older I get, the better I was.

    ROTFLMAO Thank you Keith, I need to save that quote for later. LOL
     
  7. coonhollow

    coonhollow Active Member

    lol, hilarious I heard it contained feces too! :eek: :p
     
  8. You got it all wrong Coonhollow, it's part piss not poo! Urea sulfate right? Wait, no thats safety acid! ???????
     
  9. Rick Carter

    Rick Carter Administrator

    The lightning fried your brains before you ever heard the thunder.
     
  10. Glad I could be of assistance. I know it sounds silly, but it pretty much hits the nail on the head.
     
  11. RDA

    RDA Active Member

    Keith, have you tried krowtann?
     
  12. George

    George The older I get, the better I was.

    You know, I'd BET that's the #1 question all Krowtann users ever ask. Conversely, just let someone ask, "Have you ever used dry preservative" and watch all hell break loose.
     
  13. RDA

    RDA Active Member

    There are NO harsher enviroments for mounts than nevada. If it works here , it will work anywhere. Dry preservative DOESNT work here..I get better results with KT than a few western tanneries i wont mention...I also LOVE mounting small mammals with all their feet.... ;)
     
  14. Rick Carter

    Rick Carter Administrator

    George, I won a first place at the Nationals and in the WTC master division in 1992 using Dry preservative. I have also won two first places in masters at the world in the last few years using Krowtann. I promise the Krowtann worked better. If I were still competing I'd use Krowtann again. If you like something better then by all means wear it out. I don't understand why you are so critical of something that works so good. Furthermore, how many times have I got to tell you that you are spouting terrible misinformation? Where did all of you "chemists" get your degrees?
    P.S. I bet I can STILL get a blue in masters with dry preservative! LOL
     
  15. FIELD2FOREVER

    FIELD2FOREVER The more I learn, The more I don't Know!!

    Maybe you could mention those "few western tanneries' to me in a PM. I think I found a new tannery, but I'd like to know I'm not getting myself into another mess.

    I don't want anymore of this silly Chit!!
    http://www.taxidermy.net/forum/index.php/topic,258631.msg1797093.html#msg1797093

    Tim
     
  16. No RDA I haven't used it. You have to understand, I tan for a living, and I have for 20 years now. I worked in a tannery for about 7 years before that. I don't do it out of my garage or barn, we're in about 12,000 square feet right now, I say we because of the employees on the payroll that I keep busy year around. I have enough experience that I know how the process and chemicals work.

    I'm not a chemist, I do know chemists that have been in the leather and tanning industry their entire career, as well as individuals who garment tan, tan for taxidermists as we do and also ran, and do run large leather operations, so no Rick, I draw nothing from "basement" chemists, I draw from decades of experience and success in the business by many different people.

    I've said it before, I don't care if people krow tan or powder, doesn't make a hill of beans difference to me, but I too have a serious issue when people are being misled by people spouting terrible misinformation. Call the product a preservative all you want and I have no problem with it, pretend it's a good, thorough, consistant tan and you'll hear from me, all i speak is the truth.

    Anyone that's been around awhile know that George and I don't exchange birthday cards, but I will whole heartily back him up on his position on this.
     
  17. George

    George The older I get, the better I was.

    Actually Rick, I don't have a single issue with it any longer. I once did over the inclusion of alum in the ingredients listed on the bottle, but that's long gone. I also don't have any issue with it being used as a preservative. What I object to is the same thing Keith is driving towards: ONE SINGLE PRODUCT has now tried and succeeded by blurring the lines between what generations of us knew to be involved in "tanning". I know you know those definitions well. You salt, you pickle, you neutralize, and you tan. In order to "tan" you had to stabilize the hide with an extremely low pH (pickle) neutralize the hide and then "tan" it with a moderately low pH. Most of us weren't chemists but we all knew about the litmus paper or hygrometers. Suddenly a product (similar in doctrine to the John Rineharts I use) came on the scene extolling that half of that recipe was flawed and unnecessary.

    Well, like with Rineharts, I just don't buy that crap. It's not a "tan" unless those old guidelines are followed. If it WERE, every tannery in the world would be converting to it.

    You're not quite as old as I am, but close enough to know about the disaster the taxidermy industry endured during the "pickle tan" era. PERHAPS we've pushed technology to greater achievements today and perhaps the combinations of chemicals is better and more efficient. But Krowtann is still just 11 years old and has zero history about its lifespan in hide preservations. IF I'm wrong and this treatment passes the test of time, that's a great thing. IF I'm RIGHT, however, there won't be any joy in Mudville over some fine work having been destroyed by "chemistry".

    Ron, I still have this question for you as to why "DP won't work (in your area)". Dry preservative removes water from an organic hide. Once that moisture is removed, the skin assumes a finite and final constriction as to size without any moisture present. The rub on DP has always been FLUCTUATING HUMIDITY. DP would dry the hide out, humidity would rehydrate, then the DP would dehydrate, eventually causing drumming and cracking. If your relative humidity is constantly low, why would the DP ever be an issue. And that's not so much CHEMISTRY as it is a fact of how the product works.
     
  18. antlerman

    antlerman NTA Life Member #0118

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    George, I won a first place at the Nationals and in the WTC master division in 1992 using Dry preservative. I have also won two first places in masters at the world in the last few years using Krowtann.


    I've never done all that but I did stay at a Holiday Inn last night. ;D
     
  19. George

    George The older I get, the better I was.

    Tim, that's not the point at all. I just asked the question how such a "innovative" product as Krowtann causes such a dichotomy in our industry, but almost universally, when ANYONE mentions DP, he's smacked about using "fairy dust".

    And remember, Hornaday had mounts that were in a museum that were pickle tanned and they simply disintegrated over time. When he DID them, they might have won World Championships as well. It was what happened afterwards that woke the industry up to the possibilities and causes.
     
  20. antlerman

    antlerman NTA Life Member #0118

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    I know George. I was just trying to throw in a little humor. I'm not about to get in the middle of this debate. I don't have a chemistry lab in my basement. But I will say that Michael's chemistry lab of Stop Rot and Dp caught my attention. Now you may wonder why I say that, so I will tell you. I have an English Bulldog with many skin issues. I sprayed Stop Rot on him about 6 months ago and he has had no skin issues since. In talking with Glen, I'm almost convinced that Stop Rot might be all a skin may need. I am doing a test for myself to find out. ;)