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Half cast vs form?

Discussion in 'Fish Taxidermy' started by Slick, Apr 23, 2011.

  1. Slick

    Slick Something smells fishy?

    I am going to do a 14" perch soon and was going to mount it using the half cast method. But the customer is worried about that because of moister with the fish fill. It will be hanging in his basement. I know any moister and a mount don't go well together but would the half cast just be asking for it?
  2. George

    George The older I get, the better I was.

    Since the forms made their way into the industry, I've never been that much of a fan of half casting. Even when I can't buy a form, I'd be more inclined to carve my own first. They're lighter and they don't carry that extra baggage of moisture. I just mounted a 14 inch yellow perch on a Matt Thompson form and I know it looks much better than the best half-cast I've ever done.
    drwalleye likes this.

  3. Half casting works great.
    I live 1 mile from the everglades and haven't had any problems with moisture and Sexton filler.
    I keep fish in my "Florida Room" windows open 24/7 365.
    If you want a half cast to look good be sure to fill the belly with air or caulk for that full belly look. If you half cast a suck gutted deadaz previously frozen fish that is what you will end up with on the wall. Anatomically speaking this is the most accurate method imho. It is after all THE exact body shape of the very fish you are mounting.

    I like carving as well. I just do not practice it enough, so not very good at it/ slow as molasses. I carve out of desperation only.

    I have been disappointed with properly measured commercial manikins (not often), you just never know for sure till you crack the box and test fit.

    Carve it or cast it.
  4. den007

    den007 Active Member

    You should be able to get a perfect fit on one of the commercial forms. You can get the fish back to your customer faster this way. Some of that fill takes a long time to dry.
  5. Not a perfect fit. Never. Not ever. Acceptable fit...always. Good fit...mostly. Great fit if you are lucky.
    The length/biggest girth measurement doesn't take into account any subtleties even the most basic. Measure at narrowest point etc. Rate of decrease etc.
    That is like saying an off the rack suit looks as good and fits as well as a custom tailored one. It just aint so.
    Fill will dry faster than the rest of the fish as well The plaster in it kicks pretty fast.. No extra time. I give em all a week or 2. Faster with a fan and co-operating humidity.
  6. George

    George The older I get, the better I was.

    Look, the half cast method is antiquated simply because it DOES NOT EVER- NEVER- give the fish the same look as a CORRECTLY FITTED MANKIN MOUNT will do. This ain't my first rodeo. I've seen more halfcast fish that were simply half assed than I have good manikin mounts. Most of them were stuck on the wall or on a plaque simply because the backside looked like hell to begin with. The fish weighs more when it's mounted than when it was alive. And I tire of that crap talking about "actual size". A damned one pound bass that eats a bullfrog is a helluva lot "fatter" right afterwards than it was a second before it swallowed it. Spawned out hen bass look gaunt if you were to half cast it while a good form, measured properly and prefit properly will give the client a much more appealing mount. If this wasn't the case, guys like Rick Krane, Gary Bruch, Frank Kotula, and Ken Bauman wouldn't be winning all those championships and I'm sure Matt Thompson and Tom Sexton wouldn't be marketing forms.
    drwalleye likes this.
  7. franchi612

    franchi612 New Member

    x2 what George says. Just alter a commercial mannikin if it doesn't fit. I do it all the time. I tried the half cast method once, and threw the fish away after a week because it reaked. Even with a fan blowing it reaked and would not dry. Looked like @ss too. How do you do it with open gills anyway? I never got that. I don't make enough to spend a day screwing around with what it takes to do a half cast, or usually even carve a form so I alter. Especially a 14" perch should be easy enough to find a decent form. Usually I have to thin the tails since they are too thick on perch.
  8. Slick

    Slick Something smells fishy?

    Well thanks guys. I would like to use a form but I need a 9x9 1/2 and a right turn tail up. But the only form I can find is the MT 9 1/2x 8 1/2. But is I think a tail down. But there is a left turn 9x9 1/2 but I need the RT but I need the tail out from the wall. I am not going to try and carve my own body not enough money to get the foam to practice on.
  9. coon hunter

    coon hunter Truman Waddell 270-589-7828 Brownsville Ky

    I use a half cast on small fish Like Blue gill and such . Buy the time you spend money ,and time to Make a plaster half cast, and the fish filler you wold come out even to Buy the foam and alter it . Just My 2 cents .
  10. George

    George The older I get, the better I was.

    Slick, something is off with your measurements. Is your first measurment from the center of the eye to the base of the tail fin? If it's a 14 inch perch and you use the Matt Thompson forms, the YR11B should come really close. I think the one you mention is 11 1/2 x 8 1/2 which is a LARGE yellow perch. If it's that large, I'd suggest you either carving your own or buying a "perch" form from the Rinehart line. They carry some HUGE perch forms but you WILL need some altering as their tails are always heavier than real fish would be.
  11. 1. Guys like Rick, Gary, Frank, and Ken do not win championships on commercial mannikins. Besides we are talking about a customer mount not championships.
    2.Matt Thompson and Tom Sexton market forms, sure...marketing being the operative term here.$ Tom Sexton markets filler too. And while we are dropping names I'll quote "Best -in-World" Taxidermist Tom Sexton from pg 58 in the Breakthrough manual. "I believe it to be the easiest, fastest, and most accurate way to mount any panfish; be it crappie, bream, bluegill, or any small sunfish to three pounds. " But I am sure you know better than him, right George?
    3. I actually placed some filler scraped off my bench into a cup of water before I left for Easter dinner. Still hard as a rock, 11.5 HOURS LATER. I'll check it in the morning as well.
    4. As far as time goes, I can half cast and mount 20+ fish before your form arrives in the mail. It sets in 5 min and is a lot cheaper no matter how you slice it.
    5. I will post 4 pics of panfish from my experimental days tomorrow. 2 bg, 2 crappie. You tell me which is form and which is cast.
    Personally neither I nor the customer gives a rat's patootie whats on the inside of your fish. But much like your WD40 fish oil hoax I call B.S. When I read it. All you gotta do is point it out.
  12. coon hunter

    coon hunter Truman Waddell 270-589-7828 Brownsville Ky

    These are all half cast .

  13. George

    George The older I get, the better I was.

    WD 40 fish oil hoax? I must've missed that one. And you keep half-casting all you want. It's still half-assed to most of us. Tom Sexton hasn't competed in years. If being a"national champion" carries any weight, wasn't Archie Phillips one of the first? I know he was one of the first to market fish manikins.
  14. See you tomorrow George.
    Good luck.
    P.S. You brought up the industry elite.
    And seriously, you are comparing Tom Sexton to Archie Phillips. Really???!!!
  15. I started out using half cast method 30 years ago and used it for almost 10 years. Once I learned how to carve bodies
    I quit using the half cast because of the time it took to dry and the weight. I think it is one of the most accurate methods
    of mounting small fish.II still used it on gills for several years just because it was easy. I have won several blue ribbons and some best of category with half cast Bluegills. I am no Tom, Rick or Gary but I know I'm pretty damn close.
  16. These are all half cast panfish. The two big Bluegills on the stringer are reproductions.
  17. Few more half cast panfish.
  18. I did this Crappie mount 20 years ago and saw it last year and it still looks very nice. I even
    have a few in my shop over 20 years old and still get compliments on them and they are
    in great shape.
  19. Last example picture but I have plenty more if you care to see. On this stringer the Bluegills
    and Crappie are half cast. The big Crappie on top is my first Crappie and is almost 30 years
    old. The bottom gill is about 20 years old and the top gill and small crappie are about 15
    years old.
  20. Wow Randy...
    Not pretty close you are there my friend.
    All you need to do is write a couple of books, make a few videos, or market your own forms and you fame easily would match your talent.
    Of course now I DO NOT want to post pics of my fish (they are among my first half dozen). But I will anyway.
    As you can see George the water in the fish section runs pretty deep. Or are all these beauties half-assed too?
    Perhaps you should stick to bullying over in the beginners section?