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Discussion in 'The Taxidermy Industry' started by Vicki Chritton-Myers, Jun 21, 2011.
Well said Gary.
So Hoytman, you are against horse racing also? Same scenario. Breed for genetics, used by and for the billionaires which generate a ton of money into the system. Only difference is a horse is not a prized animal to a hunter, whereas a deer is. So, with that said, what happens to horses that don't hit the mark? glue factories? Nope, they outlawed those too ending what use to be an end user commodity. Go ahead, and take the fences down. Just as soon as you do those surplus deer from the producers will be the deer that hunters still seek, just won't be any revenue in it except for the state hunting tags and the damage done that the insurance companies will omit from paying claims on. Yeah, go ahead and take those fences down. I guess you are anti deer farming all together then too huh? Well, that does it. I say lets shut down all animal farming. No pigs, chickens, cows either. Make everything free ranging. Then we'll have to bring in the wolves for population control........R I G H T!!!!!! : : :
I still cannot believe people argue this. Debate with brains, not ego.
I hear you bitching about the billionaires and greed. Damn, no wonder there are so many people with out jobs these days. Damn rich people. How dare they make any money to create jobs with with. Yep, it's people like that, that shut Detroit down. I bet they now drive a foreign car too, and eat tofu.
I say to each his own. If people want to hunt high fence then great. They know what they shot wasn't free ranging. This debate is like like talking about hunting with a rifle vs. a bow. I personally bow hunt only, because I felt that rifle hunting did not provide me enough of a challenge, but it is not for everyone. If someone wants to hunt exotics, then high fence may be their only option. Some of you forget to that not everyone is capeable of hunting only free ranging animals. I had a great friend with muscular dystrophy who had to be carried out into the woods to hunt. I am sure if he had gotten the opportunity to hunt high fence, he would of been thrilled to actually have a chance at shooting something. Then the playing field may have been leveled for him. Unfortunatly he never got that chance. Don't be so quick to judge, if high fence hunting gets even a few people to fall in love with the sport then great. I am all for it.
Your talking to taxidermists Bill. You should know better by now
Why yes antlerman, I am against Horse racing too..how did you guess.. Dog mushing too.. even the iditarod.. and I live in Alaska of all places.. Don't get me wrong here.. dogs used to supply a villiage in need of medicine.. a musher took a dog team from anchorage to nome.. saved a ton of kids and maybe the whole villiage.. no problem.. but to race dogs for pure entertainment and money.. I dont see it, wont watch it, wont support it.. Same for horse racing.. and I grew up 20 miles away from cantabury downs..
If you look at what you wrote and the quote I inserted.. my response was in reguards to your so called BALANCE>.
true, but thats ranching... not hunting.
Good posts Redwolf, gab, Bill, antlerman, kahoff. You've made some excellent points which substantiate the need for high fence hunting. Bill , I agree that it is amazing that we're still split on this. We would eventually end hunting and the outdoors lifestyle ourselves at this rate, without the antis. We already oppose each other, it would just take a little longer. Ego is a terrible thing, really.
Vicki, duxdog, Ted Befus Hoytman, I think we should be careful how many inches we concede to the anti hunting movement. Who decides how large an enclosure should be, anyway? I don't think it should matter. All rules on ethics and reverence for the game still apply. Why shouldn't it be viewed as remarkable to someone who has enjoyed happiness and success in a preserve or fenced area? Let's stop raining on parades, we're all on the same team. Seriously, we need to put our egos away. We all have one in some form or another. I believe we should be happy with whatever method or setting we choose and should not focus on what other hunters choose to do. I think an individual should hunt for himself, for the experience, and to be among nature and the animals, not to keep score against one another, or for what others will think of us. In the end, it doesn't matter. Once again, we're all on the same team.
This is a ridiculous debate that shouldn't be.
Hoyt, do you seriously believe EVERY high fence operation has animals running to a feeder ?? Come on ! I've worked at ranches that don't even have feeders. Once again someone is lumping all ranches into one bad named group. This always kills me. That is about as naive as the people who swear these deer are being fed steroids !! :
And since we are on the subject on how "easy" it is to hunt these high fence ranches, let me give everybody a different example.
At one of the ranches I worked at we were hunting 2 specific bucks for two clients. For days we could not find these two bucks that are suppossed to be "easy" to hunt cause they are in a high fence & "come running to a feeder". We tried stand hunting,hunting food plots, deer drives and just plain riding around in the ranger just to try & find them and we didnt find them or see them.
We thought these 2 bucks were dead but could not find them anywhere no matter how much foot work we did.
And then 6 weeks later, out of the blue, they just showed up again. Wherever they were, they did a good job at it !!
And you want to know the kicker................this ranch was only 200 acres fenced !!
I have a honest question for all the anti high fence people. How many of you have actually been in more than one ranch & be able to see how thing operate ? And I don't mean watching on t.v. either. I would be willing to bet $100 to an old dried up dog terd that the majority of nay sayers have not even been in more than one ranch or even in one at all.
Hear hear Fred. As I said in the other post, when you deal with antigun/antihunting groups "sensible compromise" is an oxymoron. It is us who are expected to "give" and NEVER get anything in return. Any taxidermist who sides with stopping "canned hunts" has already bought into the PETA and HSUS mentality.
Thank you Heath. You typed up exactly what I was going to.
Those who are lumping all high fence hunts into one category apparently have little or no experience with high fence hunting as a whole. Take a deer that sees hunters literally every day and tell me that it doesnt learn to recognize the dangers, just like any other animal outside of the fence. There are animals on some of these ranches that are never spotted in daylight hours. The only record the ranches have of them are game camera photos.......just like the giant whitetails that no one ever harvests, but we all know are out there.
All you Anti High Fence guys can puff out your chest all you want and boast that you will never lower yourself to hunting a high fence ranch, but dont tell me or anyone else that we are less of a hunter because we choose to do so.
IF I HAD a high fence opperation, and IF I wanted to sell off MY deer, tame or semi wild, to anyone I wanted too shoot one, it would be NOBODY"S f'n business what I did with MY deer, in MY pen.
Come on George, that has to be the dumbest thing I've heard. People have their opinions.. I am a person, their is no fair chase in a fenced hunt. I don't care how big. If you walk through a gate, and a guy closes it behind you.. You are in s fence. Look to your left.. Yep a lOng fence.. Look to your right.. Ohhhhh Yeah, a long fence. If you take 300 steps, turn around.. Can't see the fence so it must be ok. Where is the fair chase in that? May as well go to the zoo. Bust out gge check book and pick a animal.. You see my point yet?
People agree with things, some things not so much.. I don't support it.. Plain and simple.
Guess I need to find a PETA sticker eh George?
Jesse, you give them an inch and they will take a mile.......let them find success in shutting down high fences and pretty soon they will be coming for your beloved Alaska.
And then you will be asking for our help. This is one where we had better band together or the whole damn thing will unravel.
One question mike? Was the bear you took fair chase? I think I know the answer. But seriously, their has to be a sport in it. It's not the shooting. It's the hunt. If they take Alaska away, I'll move to Russia. I don't care. Bigger bears their anyway. And vodkas cheap
I am not against high-fence hunting. Owners spend a LOT of money on the animals they purchase and sure as heck wouldn't want to just turn them loose. They want to keep the superior genetics in and the inferior ones out. I just don't think that if an animal is so tame you have to push it off you to be able to shoot it like they did that one animal, that's not what hunting means to me, personally. Go ahead and do it, if that's what you want.
I used to raise a few whitetail, but their genetics weren't very good. I just bottle-fed the babies so I could study them. But the guy I bought my initial buck and a couple of does from raised several each year and sold them to a guy with a game ranch in Texas. Had I had excess (that I hadn't bottle-fed), I probably would have done the same. And it is true, if their your animals, do with them what you want. Run them in a chute and pop them in the head like they do at the processing plants if you want. Call it hunting if you want. But it still won't be what I'd call hunting, in my book, if I did it. Anyone else wants to do it, I don't care what you call it.
Jesse, there's nothing SMART about swallowing a hook. There you go with "fair chase". Do you know where that came from? TR refused to shoot a cub bear chained to a tree. Now the dumbasses at B&C are using that as a rallying cry without understanding how it's playing right into HSUS. How is it "fair" to shoot an animal at 100 yards? Is that next? How is it fair to scout using spotting scopes and trail cameras? Is that "fair"? How about using a round under .25? Is that "fair"? There was nothing dumb in my remarks and to take it that way is ignoring the obvious. And NO, I don't see your point. Your fence and the fences in Texas or in South Africa sort of screw your analogy as you've defined them as "canned". How about your red stag in Europe? Wasn't it "groomed" by games keepers or hunt masters? Can just anyone off the street go to Europe and hunt wild boar or stags or chamois when they feel like it? YOU should know better.
Vickie, you want to take a select edited shot that PETA gave you and base your opinon on THAT? How about the Charlait cow? How about Herefords and Angus? Do you REALLY think they weren't "selectively bred". They've already hit the cattle industry and the chicken industry where now you can't buy eggs from chickens in California unless the cages have "sufficient room" for the chickens to walk around. Why would you side with this kind of idiocy for any reason? Why do you think Panda bears and baby sea otters are used in their ads? Warm and fuzzy, cute and cuddly will make American brain matter look like spoiled pea soup. Look at the scimitar horned oryx. It's extinct in it's native range yet Texans have kept them behind fences and have an overabundance of them. So what is Big Brother going to do? Ban hunting them because THEY'RE EXTINCT IN THEIR HOME RANGE. Here in Delaware, coyotes were artificially reintroduced 10 years ago. Now the state has FINALLY acknowledged that we have coyotes but they want them PROTECTED because PETA/HSUS says that trapping them by any means is "inhumane". Ask Patrick about his wolves. What is it going to take for you people to wake the hell up and come to your senses.
Hey George, Did the state put the coyote's in Delaware to control the mange infested foxes that were over populating and no longer trapped and hunted?
See your wrong again George, you don't know as much as you think.
As for the Europe hunt theory of yours. If you take a course 3 months long, 5 nights a week, pass a crazy test. Both written and a shooting you get what is called a jagdschein. (hunting license). With this license you can own and purchase weapons. Very strict, but I did it. I purchased a merkel kr1 for 3k euros. Ammo at 80 eoropean a box, and a ravier through the german government. I had sold right of hunting to over 400 acres of farm land for 2 of the 3 years I lived their. A quota was set by the govt as to how many could be taken on such size land etc.
Groomed by the game keeper? Lmfao.
When ever you call the bluff, I'll scan my documents..