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competing with fish(replicas)

Discussion in 'Fish Taxidermy' started by Joey Arender, Jun 21, 2011.

  1. Joey Arender

    Joey Arender big mouth alert

    Ok this is more of a revisit then anything I guess, because I have seen it here before. I haven't competed, but in 5 state shows and one national show so far. So I have limited first hand experience, and never really paid much attention to it, until I entered the Masters category at our state show this year. I choose to compete with skin mounts right now simply because I feel that is what will make me better so it really doesn't effect me one way or the other... doing so gives me seam work, rebuilding work, paint work, molding/casting parts work, and carving work.

    anyhow I am seeing mostly replicas in the shows that I have been to recently. I understand some of the reasons why, as good specimens can sometimes be hard to come by. I understand people using bought replicas in the professional category... as they want to learn to work up replicas, as well, they may have no have no aspiration to do skin mounts ever... but I am curious to what everyone thinks about doing so(purchased replica) in masters, even in a state show... I personally think in masters you should make all your own and believe that may even be the rules in the big shows..but there were several purchased replicas in the masters category at the tn show this year. not trying to start anything... I am just curious to hear what yall think someone has to gain by doing so in the masters category at a state show.
  2. Cole

    Cole Amateur Taxidermist

    I think if your work has progressed to the point that you are competing in the masters division you should have the capability to mold and cast your own fish. In MO you are required to mold and cast your own in the masters division, and many other states I've been to are this way as well. (that doesn't mean they don't do it, but they aren't supposed to)


    GBRUCH "I am nothing without christ".....John 15:5

    In masters it should be ruled that replica entries must be made by the competitor. As Cole was getting at if your a master than it should be routine to mold and cast a part of any kind.

    I wish masters in all the divisions should be made to make all the parts themselves. Gene Smith is a master making his own forms to mount his award winning deer. Cory Caruthers is a master making his specialty bird bodies and parts. I know this limits the entries but to me a master is someone that is not dependant on the supply companies. A fish master makes their own parts including bodies and replica parts.

    If you can't do it than in my eyes you aint mastered the craft yet ---sorry.
  4. Clew

    Clew Help a child, Build our future

    York, SC
    Excellent point Gary , I agree 100 percent
  5. Manny

    Manny New Member

    Also agree with Gary.... If your a Master you should be molding your own unique fish.
    I personelly mold and cast my own fish and still compete in the professional.
  6. oldyellowdog

    oldyellowdog Member

    Having judged a couples shows myself, should I be the one to reduce the score, or should it be set in stone in the rules first? By the way, I agree with Gary 100% also.. thanks, Dan
  7. Joey Arender

    Joey Arender big mouth alert

    like I said I dont personally care as it wont reflect how well I pull off my mount. i dont plan to compete with a purchased replica ever

    its just more of something, I knew in the open category was acceptable, but I just assumed not in the DOE until this year...and I only know about the show I went to I just had that confused feeling. I think part of the competing I liked the most, was making all my parts for my skin mount..I hated the putting them all together part, so buying a replica just wouldn't do it for me LOL
  8. Frank E. Kotula

    Frank E. Kotula master, judge, instructor

    Ditto a Master is suppose to be just that a Master at their craft. Right now I don't see this. They just paint a fish and they think they should win it all LOL. Even if they do use a blank they have no knowledge on how to even fix it to make it look better and then the judge gets reamed on it when he does blue a fish that blued in another state.
    A Masters replica person if theyuse another form they should be able to fix all the mistakes the cast has and not just rely on a have way decent paint job.

    Repros should be allowed only in professional division and let the true master compete with their repros in a show. If you compete with someone manufactured blank ( even if somebody casted it for you) then you stay in the professional division no matter how good you can paint. It's just that a paint job. But hey that's my opinion ans mine smells lol.
  9. bnoody

    bnoody Member

    I agree with all stated above, I had some good conversations with members of NEAT around this at our competition this weekend. If you are competing in a replica category especially masters I think you should be doing all of the molding yourself. It is not a painting competition, at least I don't think that is what anyone intended when the replica category's were introduced to the taxidermy competitions. Not to mention if your using someone else's replica, doesn't that put you in a collective artists division?? I would think Gary, Lake Country or others should be getting credit for the work they did in such cases.

    I also find it very disappointing the noticeable lack of skin mount fish that are now in the competitions. There is tremendous value in learning to properly skin mount a fish. People are entering replicas with no real understanding of anatomy or how the fins attach and properly function. Handling the real fish will teach people a lot more about their trade than buying a plastic fish and snapping it together.
  10. duxdog

    duxdog Active Member

    In MI, you cannot use someone else's replica. I think there should be a separate category stating using someone else's replica blank. And I think purchased blanks should be allowed in the beginner category. It would increase entries in the shows IMO.
  11. jim tucker

    jim tucker Active Member

    In Ohio Masters must enter their OWN work. Commercial IS allowed in the Pro Category.

    Myself I am not a HUGE replica fan...they have their place but I don't really like them all that much.
  12. Brian W

    Brian W Active Member

    agreed.....if you aspire to the Masters level, then you need to showcase YOUR talent as far as I'm concerned and really, I think most competitors at that level WANT to "show their stuff", not others, with pride of the time and effort it took to earn the right to compete in that catagory. Pro yes, Masters no.............
  13. M.T.

    M.T. Active Member

    In my eyes, the problem with all of that is the simple FACT that reproductions are NOT Taxidermy. I dont care, you can argue the fact till you're blue in the face, they are not taxidermy! Sure, there is a catagory for them, but dont be calling it taxidermy. Someone that builds model airplanes can do an excellent fish repro with good reference! Someone that molds candles can do a great fish head! There is no skin involved, it is arts and crafts.
  14. Kerby Ross

    Kerby Ross KSU - Class of '83; U.S. Army - Infantry (83-92)

    It will never be the same everywhere..........

    It would be nice if all the states had the same competition rules.....but we know that is not the case.

    * After last year Arizona finally changed the rule to where Masters had to mold and cast their own to compete.
    * Some states let replicas compete with skin mounts.
    * Some states separate ALL replicas into one category (reptiles competing with fish).

    I agree if you are in the Master Division then you should be molding and casting your own specimens. And start doing it in the Professional Division as you should be rewarded for doing so.


  15. Kerby Ross

    Kerby Ross KSU - Class of '83; U.S. Army - Infantry (83-92)

    So M.T. ................

    So does that mean birds with repro heads and feet aren't real taxidermy?

    Coldwater fish with repro heads and fins aren't real taxidermy?

    Mammals with repro noses aren't real taxidermy?

    Fake jaws and teeth not real taxidermy?

    Can't have it both ways....gotta make a stand LOL


  16. Cole

    Cole Amateur Taxidermist

    Most people don't call Hobby Lobby when they need a fish replicated...they call a taxidermist. Taxidermy involves a wide variety of methods of preserving an animal. Yes, when broken down the word itself derives from the movement of skin, but the term encompasses much more than that. The term includes the preservation of an animal, and the skill to make the animal look as it did when it was alive. Over the years the methods of doing just that have changed, and now include the replicating of parts, or as in the case of a replica fish...the whole thing.
  17. M.T.

    M.T. Active Member

    Kerby, your one liner says it all, I'm not a taxidermist, I just play one on the internet! All I'm saying is that putting together a model of a fish or reptile or anything else isn't taxidermy. Sure, a taxidermist might be better qualified to reconstruct that said model, but I can guarantee you if you had never done any taxidermy before, you could pull of the feat with some good reference. It isn't Taxidermy, Bottom line, there, I just made my stand!
  18. Kerby Ross

    Kerby Ross KSU - Class of '83; U.S. Army - Infantry (83-92)

    That's it.......

    That's it, that's all you got....I expected some logic in your answer.......................instead you make fun of my signature block? You disappoint me.

    What about the other artificial parts?

    Here I will help you and repost it:

    So does that mean birds with repro heads and feet aren't real taxidermy?

    Coldwater fish with repro heads and fins aren't real taxidermy?

    Mammals with repro noses aren't real taxidermy?

    Fake jaws and teeth not real taxidermy?

    Can't have it both ways....gotta make a stand LOL


  19. psycho

    psycho 2011 WORLD CHAMPIONS!

    Do you mold and cast anything? Taxidermy would not be where it is today if it wasn't for the people who do molding and casting. I fail to see you make a viable stand. "It isn't Taxidermy, Bottom line" I know people that can move skin and I know people that do replicas but I also know not everyone can do it. You simply say, "All I'm saying is that putting together a model of a fish or reptile or anything else isn't taxidermy". I have a hard time believing anyone but a knucklehead would say something like that. I think you may need to look deeper into the profession to see what it completely involves. ::)

    I think you stand alone on this thread, at least that appears where your stand has been made. :p
  20. Joey Arender

    Joey Arender big mouth alert

    Lol ok I think buying a replica is just model building but molding and casting whole or parts is as much taxidermy as any open mouth mammal anyone does so.... But to stay inline here. Kirby ur a reptile guy. I saw a Morgan lizard of some type win Boc in masters. It was just painted by some guy.
    I know it was Morgan cause he said it was.

    I understand states lumping replicas and skinmounts together sometimes there just aren't enough of either.8 I just don't understand the allowing purchased replicas to enter masters. Be it fish or reptiles. That's all, and apparently it's not The norm for most states. Thanks to all That replied