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Anyone Else Bothered by This?

Discussion in 'Buyers and Sellers' started by Light Rail Coyote, Jul 23, 2011.

  1. Light Rail Coyote

    Light Rail Coyote Active Member

    Some woman in Australia has been selling hawk and owl feathers online for an apparently long while. And she offers international shipping. ::)

  2. Why be bothered? I do not know Aussie laws. There are more nations in the world than the U.S.
    Hawks and owls are not rare in general.
    If someone in the U.S. Breaks the laws here it is not my business or place to enforce it.

  3. Light Rail Coyote

    Light Rail Coyote Active Member

    She has sold to buyers in the USA, though.
  4. jherret

    jherret New Member

    Yea but they aren't too bright and risk the illegalness of possessing said feathers or they don't bother to know the laws. It is really their stupidity.
  5. Light Rail Coyote

    Light Rail Coyote Active Member

    Good point. I guess it just bothers me because I've heard that other people have tried explaining the laws to this seller, and she continues to keep at it. Hawks and owls are not uncommon, but I find it hard to believe that she just 'finds' these feathers laying around.
  6. General Lee

    General Lee Member

    A wolf trapped in Canada is legal to sell in the USA...as long as all paperwork is kept. What is the difference?
  7. jherret

    jherret New Member

    True though maybe she is playing with fire but is does the migratory bird act cover Australia too? I know U.K ,Canada,Russia,Mexico and Japan. So it may not be completely illegal to sell there within the country so long as it isn't on their threatened bird list I guess. Though since she is still supplying it is illegal here and shouldn't be allowed. But I probably sound like an idiot right about now lol. All I know is illegal feathers= 250,000 or so fine and possible jail time.. no thanks. lol
  8. Sea Wolf

    Sea Wolf Well-Known Member

    Have you ever heard of "roadkill"? Or falconers? Finding feathers out in the woods? There are many ways to get hawk feathers, owls and even eagles. Aussie law is not OUR law. So what if she ships out of her country? I have several hawk and owl specimens that came from out of this country. They are not protected nor are they even North American species. If it's not native to here and not endangered/protected, it is perfectly legal.

    Most of what I see are small body feathers, not even wing primaries or secondaries. Feathers that are easily and often lost. She can ship out of her country. It is YOUR responsibility to make sure that your purchase is legal. She states on her site that some of her feathers may be illegal in other countries.

    Bad enough that the internet police go after US sellers on here but now they also have to write to someone in a foreign country to tell them what the laws are that they should be obeying? Do they LIVE in Australia?
  9. I'm more offended by the ugly jewelry.
  10. Omnivore

    Omnivore New Member

    Googled, found this:
    If Australia's laws are anything like the USA's laws, I'd assume it's by extension illegal to have remains of native owls (like feathers) and it's the native Australian barn owl she has items with feathers of. Unless she has a falconry license, it's illegal for her to have or sell them.
    Regardless of if it's legal for a US resident to have Australian barn owl feathers (without needing licenses or the like), if it were me on the buying end I would strongly conclude that it's illegal for the transaction to take place regardless, them being native Australian wildlife and protected in their own right.

    but hey, what do I know?
  11. Old Fart

    Old Fart Active Member

    The U.S. and Canada are both involved with the Migratory Bird Treaty which is the basis of U.S. laws. Yet in Canada they can posses the same species of hawks and owls that are illegal in the U.S. How can any of you make assumptions on what the Australian laws are based on the U.S. regulations. I "know" this, unless it's endangered or threatened, it's not covered by U.S. regulations.
  12. pyeager1

    pyeager1 Active Member

    Who really gives a $h!t! I hate most all hawks and owls..........................wish they'd sell them all!! ::) :D
  13. Omnivore

    Omnivore New Member

    Okay, everybody, I got this- according to Australia's Threatened Species Conservation Act of 1995, you cannot keep any dead native Australian birds of prey without having a license to do so.

    The woman in question says she found a dead barn owl in the Australian wilderness and kept its feathers. Unless she has a license to do so- which the site said was one level up from a normal taxidermy roadkill-take license- then according to the Australian Office of Environment & Heritage, she has broken the law. For those of us who were really curious, well, there we go.
  14. It may be the law but it's a pretty silly law then - a beautiful bird was found dead and now it's feathers get to live on in jewelry, rather than just rotting away to be wasted - sounds like a good thing to me. I think common sense should have a greater priority than manmade 'laws' when it comes to this sort of thing..

    I've known her for a while now and she is one the nicest ladies you will ever meet, and has a great respect for nature. Her jewelry is also beautiful and I own a few earrings and smudging fans from her. =)

    Really? I think her work is quite unique and organic, much more attractive than most silver and gold etc items available. Just because it might not appeal to you doesn't make it ugly?
  15. Sea Wolf

    Sea Wolf Well-Known Member

    Laws are very explicit. Keeping feathers is NOT keeping a dead owl. There is a very big difference. The problem with our law is that it states "any part of". You can't even keep a feather that you find in the woods. Canada and elsewhere were intelligent enough to word the law and make allowances for people finding stuff.
  16. duxdog

    duxdog Active Member

    This is exactly what has happened to this society. Everybody is worried about what everyone else is doing.
  17. Indeed, and over such petty little issues! It would be different if people actually went out and killed these animals for their feathers, but that's far from the case here. I know if I found a dead eagle or owl, i'd certainly be taking a few feathers for myself. =)
  18. Sea Wolf

    Sea Wolf Well-Known Member

    It's sad that, in the US, we are screwed by some very simple wording. How many times have I passed by a dead hawk or owl on the side of the road because of that? What a waste to let something like that rot instead of being to at least make some use of it. In Canada, the UK and most everywhere else, you can take said dead critter to a local wildlife office and get paperwork for it that allows you to keep it. Just because the US laws stink, doesn't give folks here permission to hassle those in other countries. I think they are just jealous.
  19. Omnivore

    Omnivore New Member

    Yes, you go to the authorities and get the paperwork, not just assume it's OK and then start selling them. According to everything I'm reading, Australia is very touchy about its native birds of prey- you need licenses out the wazoo to own a live owl, you need licenses out the wazoo to own a dead owl, and you need more licenses than that to be able to do taxidermy on them. If you want to argue "well it's only a part", you're ignoring the fact that she at some point had in her possession a dead owl and took feathers off it- are you going to say that she could take the feet off and it's "not a dead owl"? Or the wings? Or the skull? It's not even that she found a molted feather on the ground.

    Look, if I'd come across her I wouldn't have given two left toenails about what this (I'm sure very nice) woman is doing on the other side of the world from me, obviously we all know she isn't out there shooting them, but legally, she is probably breaking a law designed specifically to keep people from getting it in their heads to harvest protected species for parts. If she had asked her local wildlife officials and got the OK this conversation wouldn't be happening at all.
  20. Omnivore

    Omnivore New Member

    and, finally, we have this:
    All of this information was found in the Australian Office of Environmental Heritage's page regarding taxidermy-related topics. It is illegal to take a found-dead bird of prey without a license and it is illegal to keep native bird of prey feathers without one, too. If anyone at all was interested to know if it would be legal for them to buy the woman in question's jewelry, the answer would be no as they are illegally possessed to begin with.

    Any other questions? Does someone close to her want to let her know so that she can make her own choices on how to proceed?