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wrapped body- leg bones left in and pickling/tanning

Discussion in 'Lifesize Mammals' started by trappersteph, Oct 10, 2011.

  1. trappersteph

    trappersteph now you can have it...

    I asked in the big wrapped body thread but nobody answered. Snowhare's videos show him leaving the leg bones in, but if you tan your hides using a pickle, then neutralizing and tanning, you get rubbery bones. The pickle does this. So is there another method? Remove the leg bones intact down to the last toe bone( or close in small stuff), clean and freeze, use something like Rittel's preservit on the connective tissues? Tan the hide, and then insert the treated leg bone assembly and wiring, and then wrap the legs from there?

    Yes, I will fully tan even a weasel. I had enough of fur slippage from my warm hands alone years ago with borax or dry preserve. Possums are also know for this, but they can be full of bacteria esp since they like to eat the most rotten of things. I've found it most prevalent in late season taken males- have no idea why. Must be they are eating putrid deer parts or something.

    I will say that in regards to snowy's dog and cat prep, that what is shown is ok if the animals were frozen immediatly after death and the animal wasn't full of bacterial infections, and you plan to finish the mount via freeze drying.
     
  2. snowhare

    snowhare New Member

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    I no the problem , but if you just run a wire againt the bones than use twine to keep the wire in place , after that you may wrapp them up , not hard
    We used a raw hide just cause there was no time for the tanning , and an other thing was every one uses theyre own tan , so thats why ok
    Any questions just pm ore ask me


    Snowy

    PS try an other pickle maby

    I use alum and salt , than shave the skin , put it back in again , shave again , than rinse out for 12 hours in could water , and than i use Liquatan , no problem what so ever always good
     

  3. LordRusty

    LordRusty If I agreed with you, we'd both be wrong.

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    Good advice from the Meerkat Man!
     
  4. trappersteph

    trappersteph now you can have it...

    Thanks snowy.

    Now I didn't get the dvd of the mink made without a carcass, so I am guessing no leg bones in that skin? I'll have to get that dvd and the cat one. All great info.
     
  5. LordRusty

    LordRusty If I agreed with you, we'd both be wrong.

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    You guys would never believe the lengths I go through to create a mammal from just a skin and no bones. Let's just say, I do eventually end up using "bones" of some kind (usually made from wood) and leave it at that. ;)
     
  6. Allie

    Allie Active Member

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    I'm very new at this and have been experimenting a lot. SNOWY, please clarify...
    Do you rinse in cold water for 12 hours after pickle and before using Liquatan? How do you do that?
    Do you neutralize, or does the rinse substitute for that?
    And do you degrease squirrels? If so, when?
    Thanks!
    Allie
     
  7. LordRusty

    LordRusty If I agreed with you, we'd both be wrong.

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    I'm going to tell you the same thing I tell everyone wanting all this information ... You want to learn about mounting mammals ... buy the Breakthrough Mammal Taxidermy Manual. Spend a few bucks, and read how to do it. People have to start paying their dues, and this is a real good start.

    The Breakthrough Mammal Taxidermy Manual
    160 pages, over 800 black and white photos and diagrams. 8-1/2" x 11" Plastic comb binder.

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    Order number BP1009 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 24.95
    (Plus $5.00 shipping & handling)

    Order with VISA, MasterCard, Discover or American Express by calling the number below.
     
  8. Allie

    Allie Active Member

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    Thanks for the tip, John. I have spent a few bucks and bought that manual and read it. And I've read lots of other tanning instructions written by experienced tanners and taxidermists. It can get confusing and is often contradictory. For instance, the Manual and the instructions that come with Lutan say to neutralize it, but some (like Old Shaver) say don't.
    And the Manual says on p.46 that the "pickling and neutralization are listed as optional steps in the Liqua-Tan directions", even though they are not optional in the instructions I received.
    I know Snowy uses Liqua-Tan and his instructions don't mention a neutralization step and I was asking HIM for clarification. And I am totally confused by the 12 hour rinse, something I've never heard of.
    I've learned a lot from you and you've written lots of informative and insightful things on this forum, but "buy a book" is not one of them.
     
  9. snowhare

    snowhare New Member

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    That 12 hours of rinsing is just the way i do it , to get al and i mean alll Salt and Alum out of the skin , iff you dont do that , the skin will turn rock hard , that s all to it , no more no less
     
  10. Allie

    Allie Active Member

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    OK, just wanted to make sure you didn't mean 12 minutes. Thanks!
     
  11. LordRusty

    LordRusty If I agreed with you, we'd both be wrong.

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    Fine. Here is my answer to snarky little "I'm really new to this" twerps ... READ a book! Then REREAD a book. And REREAD it until you understand it! Paying your dues is lost on this "gotta have it now" group of mindless dolts. You don't like that answer because it is too obvious and straight to the point.
     
  12. spk1142

    spk1142 Member

    WOW John!!
     
  13. michael p.

    michael p. Getting better with age :)

    That's normal Scott.
     
  14. Bill Yox

    Bill Yox Well-Known Member

    John, youve gotta stop doing this. Allie doesnt strike me as a snarky little twerp or a dolt. A fellow forum member, but not those other descriptives. You, however, have steadily earned yourselfr some less than flattering descriptives.

    I seldom throw my weight around in here and brag, like you do, but here goes. Well I happen to have about as many years in this industry as you do, and I aint too damn shabby at what I do. And I also wasnt sure if jerome meant 12 hours in clear water when I read it, and Im hardly a newbie, snarky or wanting instant answers.

    This site needs and thrives on the inflow of new and inexperienced taxidermists, and wants them here. This site does not need a holier than thou individual to run them off, nor does it want one here.
     
  15. George

    George The older I get, the better I was.

    OK WHO THE HELL FORGOT TO GET JOHN'S PRESCRIPTION FILLED.

    Allie you are going to find that even though a few think they're smart enough to be rocket scientists, this is a primitive craft whose basics have changed very little since the caveman. You will find that every taxidermist at some point will be tempted to reinvent the wheel. Most of us play with recipes and settle on a method WE prefer. In this case where you see contrasting opinions is a signal to you about your working on a method YOU prefer. Then one day you can be an expert and talk down to beginners just like John.
     
  16. snowhare

    snowhare New Member

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    ??? ???

    WOWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW

    SORY THAN , MENT CLEAR WATER , BUT I THOUGHT ALL OF YOU NEW THIS

    MABY IT CAUSE OF MY BAD ENGLISH EH :p :p :p :p
     
  17. trappersteph

    trappersteph now you can have it...

    John B, you sound like George used to on here all the time LOL. "Use the search function you beginners...! Alum tans suck! Epogrip is god! Bondo is NOT a freakin #[email protected]@@[email protected][email protected][email protected][email protected]! adhesive!"

    I too wonder what rinsing 12 hours means, is it 12 hours of flowing water like a waterfall?

    I am thinking maybe the best bet bet for those of us the US who can get 20-30-100 or whatever different types of tans is to use one of those no pickle required types such as liquatan, or HQ no pickle. You need only salt overnight, drain, do some fleshing if you didn't detail it prior to salting ( and using stop-rot since some of these smaller mammals can spoil from your body heat in your fingers...), rinse to rehydrate, then apply the creamy tan. Let set for x hours according to directions and etc, then mount. I've been goofing around with the HQ tan with pickle required and the tan seems to set those slippy fox ears and it set my slippy weasel belly I had in the neutralize a minute too long.

    I am not sure about a straight up alum tan- George has me paranoid about them LOL. I recall those hours of debate about krowtan...( btw krowtan will rubberize your bones-been there done that-it's pickle and tan in one)
     
  18. LordRusty

    LordRusty If I agreed with you, we'd both be wrong.

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    George normally still sounds like that ... with everybody!

    You can use Acetic Acid (White Vinegar); Citric Acid (used in canning pickles); or Oxalic Acid Crystals (for your pickle). All acids will act on bones in the same way, some more than others. Acetic Acid is the mildest, followed by Citric acid.

    You can rig it so the leg bones remain above the pickle. Tie the front and rear leg bones to a stick that spans your pickle container, keeping the main parts of the bones out of the pickle, yet still allowing where the hide is still attached to remain submerged. Yes, the toe bones and bones of the feet will be in the pickle, but the long bones of the legs will remain solid and not soften up. When leaving leg bones attached there is mot much choice when it comes to pickling the skins. You either submerge the whole thing, or keep the leg bones out of and above the pickle.

    As for Alum, it is the best tan for African skins. The extreme astringency of the alum tan and pickle is best for reducing any epidermal slippage. It is the most astringent pickle and tan there is.

    Good luck to you.