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Super Rare LEUCISTIC coyote

Discussion in 'For Sale' started by mjvaden, Dec 29, 2011.

  1. George

    George The older I get, the better I was.

    Bill, i can see what you're saying in Florida and Georgia,but unless the coyote can swim 24 miles across the Chesapeake at Norfolk or from Atlantic City across the Delaware Bay, then SOMEONE artificially introduced here on the Delmarva Peninsula. The northern part of Delaware where they'd only have to swim a quarter mile across the C&D Canal seems to have yet to even see one.

    Liz, you need to talk to some livestock people. i've seen a goat pen that held 6 goats and all had been killed without anything being eaten. I've talked to sheep farmers who've had mass slaughters take place in their flocks in the same fashion. Nat Geo won't show you things like that, but ask Patrick on here about similar things with wolves.

    I do have a question. I see someone mention the "red wolf". I know there's an isolated population on an island off North Carolina,but I thought that DNA testing had determined that the red wolf was nothing more than a hybrid between the eastern gray wolf and the coyote. Am I under the wrong assumption with that??
     
  2. Jim McNamara

    Jim McNamara Well-Known Member

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    Bet you didn't expect all this Mike.
    George, I hunt swans around Creswell, N.C. and was told by the guide there were Red Wolves on his dads property which had been introduced. We had a truck of coyotes delivered to a local Metro Park a couple years ago according to the cousin of the driver. Have heard for years that Ohio was bringing them in but never had it confirmed.
     

  3. msestak

    msestak Well-Known Member

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    did you hear about the PA GAme commission stocking coyotes, they even have numbers tattooed on the inside of their lower lip, they did this along with the Herd reduction effort to please the auto insurance industry.

    ::) ;D
     
  4. Bill Yox

    Bill Yox Well-Known Member

    I am not calling any of you wrong. I cant talk about every instance in every spot that has coyotes. For example, I know they stocked red wolves on the islands off the coast hoping to isolate the red wolf to breed true because he so easily bred with the coyote as it began its trek eastward to become the eastern coyote we now know. As for this population or that one, all I am saying is we always hear about a guy who knew a cousin who drove the truck (or flew the copter) that planted the coyotes, usually secretly, yada yada. The PA story and tattoos is a good example. Again, what I am saying is, the smartest animals plant themselves, its the way it is. For the record, I am not saying those other animals didnt arrive as you guys say, just that its not likely the only ones. Research where coyotes already are and youll see the point I was making. I hope you see where I was going with my comment.
     
  5. The red wolves are not isolated to an island but they are closely monitored. They are a distinct species, and the USFWS is trying like heck (in vain IMHO) to keep the DNA pure.....90+% of the red wolves are radio collared. There is an extensive trapping program in the area to sterilize the local coyote population. They do not kill the yotes, because that would create a vacuum and allow another pair to move in, increasing the chance for interbreeding.

    A friend of mine ran a fox line down there a couple years ago. Caught two red wolves. The first one, when he got to his trap, he had a USFWS business card in the jaws. They had monitored the collar and released the wolf. The second one he called the USFWS guys and they came and released it. Pretty cool deal. I wish I could find the pictures.

    There was a grad student from out in Montana that was studying the Red Wolf DNA dispersal into the coyote population. He was taking DNA samples from coyotes harvested in eastern NC, as far west as Raleigh. Last time I talked to him, he had found a DNA sample from a coyote that was harvested 40 miles east of Raleigh that was 1/8 red wolf......

    I don' t know how long they can keep it up to keep the DNA pure.
     
  6. mjvaden

    mjvaden New Member

    Wow HOLY COW... Jim your right not what I expected to try to sell a Yote!

    Let me set a few things st rate.

    !st THIS YOTE IS DEAD HAS BEEN DEAD FOR OVER A YEAR No chance of revival, no HE WILL NOT BE BREAD, the best that we could hope for is he will become a really beautiful piece of taxidermy ;)

    2ND Yes he is still for sale

    3rd I was told by a coyote biologist the I highly respect that the color IS LEUCISTIC, not liver, not chocolate, not red But Leucistic.
    Leucism /ˈljuːsɪzəm/[1] is a condition characterized by reduced pigmentation in animals and humans. Unlike albinism, it is caused by a reduction in all types of skin pigment, not just melanin.

    4th. In working at the museum in florida I have handled several Pleistocene coyote skulls and other parts, and even have a fossil coyote skull in my personal collection that is over10,000 years old. I doubt paleo Indians were stocking "fox pens" back then ROTFLMAO!!!

    5th I also thought that it might be interesting to breed them but the state of GA is ridiculous when it comes to keeping them so it is a GIANT Not going to happen.

    6th Coyotes here are shot on site and where I live the only good coyote is a dead one.

    7th though this debate has gotten rather silly....... I appreciate all the fee bumps ;)
     
  7. Sea Wolf

    Sea Wolf Well-Known Member

    As for coyotes being brought to areas they aren't .. it could happen. But any critter can pretty much get anywhere it wants to in the old USA and either not be seen or those that do and say they saw a so and so are called crazy. Cite the cougar that just recently got killed in Milford, Conn. Damn, we do NOT have cougars here! Haven't in a hundred years or more. Yet this one is proven to have gotten here on it's own ... from South Dakota!

    http://abcnews.go.com/US/conn-mountain-lion-made-long-journey-south-dakota/story?id=14169829#.TxoPioHnvuw

    As for coyote fur value, I do know that it now seems to be the chosen fur for lining the hoods of winter parkas and other accents on coats. It used to be wolf but the cost of that fur has forced garment makers to go in a different direction. Some furriers still put out some pricey coyote fur jackets as well. Raising coyotes like foxes to harvest high quality fur in exotic colors probably would be a logistical nightmare and a project long in experimentation to start. Possibly not even cost effective. Still, one of those curious "could it be done" questions.

    And our NE Coyotes up here have been DNA proven to have red wolf genes. We always figured that it was wolf from up across Canada and then down through NY, VT and Maine. Not so. It's interesting that these guys came from the Midwest, went south and then up the Eastern seaboard to get here. What survived and bred to populate up here is a big and damned bold animal.
     
  8. Mike nice Yote----I've trapped and call coyotes for most of 50 years[I'm 65}and have never taken one in that color phase-though a friend has taken 3 pretty close to the same in recent years----Congartulations on a fine catch-Hey!! Our Wolfs In the U.P. {mich} don't breed with coyotes they EAT them-----skip
     
  9. Bill Yox

    Bill Yox Well-Known Member

    Seawolf, yes a lot of folks still say its northern influence of wolves, but most, and myself too, agree with the red wolf theory, the color phases are an easy giveaway even before they did mitochonrial dna tests. I also agree with swampbuck, yep, theyd as soon eat em! Mike, glad we could help you buddy. Normally I like to move these to the appropriate category but this topic seems to have a lot of interest, so I hope the other sellers dont mind.
     
  10. Randy Miller

    Randy Miller Active Member



    I have a tattoo on the inside of my lower lip and the DNR didn't plant me here....point is, there was once heavy demand on coyote fur and bounties and now there is not. Populations were very low and now they have rebounded.

    Beautiful animal by the way
     
  11. So where are you selling your normal coyotes now Michael? I know where they are going. Are you saying definitively that the pens have had no hand in the spread of coyotes in southeastern USA? If you think that the pens did NOT "RE-INTRODUCE" the coyote to North Carolina you need to stop eating funny brownies.....

    They WERE NOT HERE.....NOW THEY ARE.....

    They can be traced to a centralized area of North Carolina that has the highest concentration of pens, right around the time that Hurricane Hugo hit in 1989.

    Category 4 Hurricane + Planted Pines + Fenced Coyotes = Mass escapees.......

    I agree that the eastern coyote has done a great job adapting and expanding, but they did not swim across the Mississippi river, migrate down from Canada or self-generate from the soil.....

    They were brought back to NC for the pens......
     
  12. Bill Yox

    Bill Yox Well-Known Member

    Whether they came from pens in your area or not, they definitely did come across the mississippi and expand north to canada.
     
  13. bubba z

    bubba z New Member

    That is true also Bill. I researched it to make sure and its on the Florida wildlife commissions website and they said the modern population of coyotes is from a combination of eastward expansion and the release of them for dog training pens and went on to document several that were brought in and escaped over the years. I didn't know that they were here thousands of years ago and were
    Essentially wiped out by the 1920s until they started showing up in the 80s.
     
  14. SCHALL53

    SCHALL53 New Member

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    I want to know how they wiped them out so we can do it again!!!
     
    Setsuna likes this.
  15. Perca

    Perca Well-Known Member

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    WOW! I hope some of you good people can sort the facts from the opinions on this post.
     
  16. gamer360

    gamer360 Member

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    I second that Perca. Mike wants to sell the coyote not debate it.
     
  17. Bill Yox

    Bill Yox Well-Known Member

    Being that Mike and I are friends, and I mod this site, Im willing to bet that based on the number of posts, not too many folks mind this discussion. Im also willing to bet that the guys and gals correcting each other on leucism are all enjoying the learning associated with it. The guys who have their facts about released coyotes may not agree with the others logic, including mine, but I for one havent gotten any hate mail yet, and I doubt I will ;) Mike has already said he likes the free bump. Add to that, I dont know how to split and merge and redirect this topic without murdering it, so we have a very popular post doing just fine.

    I might get Ken to seperate this and send it to the mammal section and duplicate the original pic and post for the for sale category though. No worries guys, this is better then the usual name calling threads!!!
     
  18. swampfox

    swampfox New Member

    I trapped coyotes back in 78' near Cairo GA on my then father-in-laws farm. They were killing his goats at the time, and he thought they were wild dogs. Word was the fox hunters had brought in a load to run.
     
    Setsuna likes this.
  19. Mason

    Mason Active Member

    Not to add fuel, but here in PA Westmoreland county to be exact. Years ago I use to use a taxidermist there. He got 2 coyotes in during deer season that had ear tags in them. On the tags was PGC . I saw them. The game commission got word of it and came to get the yotes from the taxidermists shop. He would not release them till the customer gave him permission.
    In the end they were taken away. Not another word about em. This was probably 15 years ago
     
  20. Shane Smith

    Shane Smith New Member

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    Wow, I have a small female ready to mount in the freezer just like this and i had no idea they was so rare. We seem to have a population of red coyotes around here anyhow. I just thought she was a really red one. Now im rethinking what to do with her.lol