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salt added to neutralize bath

Discussion in 'Tanning' started by DRW, Jan 25, 2012.

  1. DRW

    DRW New Member

    should i add a handfull of salt when i neutralize with the baking soda ?
    thanks
     
  2. 1/4 lbs per gallon of water.
     

  3. DRW

    DRW New Member

    thanks ;)
     
  4. Doug,,, Just curious,,, what purpose does the salt serve?
     
  5. Re: Re: salt added to neutralize bath

    I don't question why. I just do as the recipe says to. Maybe old shaver or someone else will chime in.

    From my DROID dammit!
     
  6. George

    George The older I get, the better I was.

    Prevents acid swell.
     
  7. cyclone

    cyclone Posts: 400001

    Although salt (sodium chloride) will not hurt in the neutralization it is not all that necessary. Baking soda, sodium bicarbonate, is itself considered a salt. It has enough of an affect during neutralization to prevent swell. The acid that is being neutralized also becomes a salt.. Additionally, there should be enough salt (sodium chloride) from the pickle within the hide to prevent swell.
     
  8. Thanks Doug,George and Cyclone! Just wondered. Never have done that. I always figured the hide had to be saturated with salt after the pickle process.
     
  9. George

    George The older I get, the better I was.

    Cyclone, I once had a beautiful lifesized axis buck hide that I had been tasked to mount for my wife. I do wish you had spoken to the salt and the baking soda before I immersed that hide into the neutralizing bath. Within 60 seconds, the hide weighed about 25 pounds more than it did when I dropped it in and no amount of chemical maneuvering I did would change that fact. It cost me $250 plus shipping to get me a replacement hide that I promptly salted and sent to Carolina Fur.
     
  10. cyclone

    cyclone Posts: 400001

    Not sure I follow George.

    I routinely neutralize whitetail hides without adding any salt to the solution. Although they do plump somewhat, I have never had problems as complex as the one you describe. In that I like to shave afterwards, the slight plumping that I experience has had no negative impacts.

    With that much swell I would guess that your problem may have started with an imbalance of salt in the pickle..
     
  11. Rhino

    Rhino Too many irons in the fire will put the fire out!

    I aint saying nobodys right or wrong, but, I thing you should add the salt.

    Not just to prevent osmosis, but it just "fells better" to me, to have a little salt in the water. :D
     
  12. That's interesting cyclone, I never run into that problem since we always neutralize in a bath that already has salt in it, but in certain process's where we want to intentionally swell a skin we've noticed that bicarb and borax both tend to keep it from swelling as much.
     
  13. In 20 years, I have never put salt in my neutralizing bath, but, since using tru bond, I have every once in a while, per oldshavers instructions. I can say I really cant tell any difference.
     
  14. George

    George The older I get, the better I was.

    OK, then let's get definitive about this. If it's NOT the salt being added to the neutralizing bath, then I would like to hear a definitive reason for osmotic swelling or acid swell to have occurred. Why did my axis hide look like a water balloon?
     
  15. cyclone

    cyclone Posts: 400001


    George, all I can offer is possible causes, nothing definitive.

    Length of time in the neutralization bath.
    Amount of bicarb in neutralization bath.
    Incorrect balance of salt/acid in pickle which would damage the collagen structure beyond recovery..
    Individual differences in the specific cape/hide.

    e.g. I'm sure you have worked on quite a few Maryland sika. I've shaved a few of them raw and can tell you that they will swell while you are shaving them raw, no salt at all. Not to the extent that you had with the axis, but enough that they can be nicely shaved thin before even hitting the pickle. I neutralize them in the same manner after pickling with no adverse effects..
     
  16. cyclone

    cyclone Posts: 400001

    Dang it Aubrey, you beat me again..
     
  17. George

    George The older I get, the better I was.

    I guess this is like a Sasquatch story. I know, since I SELDOM pickle to begin with, I am meticulous about following the manufacturers instructions. Still, when I tan, I NEVER DRY A HIDE FLINT DRY. Thus I never "rehydrate". Now before some of you jump on that bandwagon, I'd caution you that this is the same method I've used since the days I used sulfuric acid as a pickle. That axis was not the first to swell,but it was damned sure so rare that I was "surprised". The ONLY common denominator between the hundreds of other hides with no problems and this one was that I didn't add salt to the neutralization bath. I did watch the pH religiously so that it still leaves much to be understood.
     
  18. George, Sulfuric still rocks !!! ;-)
     
  19. Rhino

    Rhino Too many irons in the fire will put the fire out!

    Cyclone, I deleated my last post, so make adjustments! LOL

    For some reason, I thought George sent that axis out to be tanned?? Sorry George. I need to pay better attention LOL! :D

    I like the salt to be added, but what ever floats your boat!
     
  20. DRW

    DRW New Member

    Sulfuric as a pickle ?