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What the...? a white Canada goose!

Discussion in 'Bird Taxidermy' started by 2wbdft, Feb 3, 2012.

  1. So how would you make the size 11-13 pink eyes? That sounds like a hoot.


    Thanks for sharing the pics, I hope you post mounted pics aswell when done.
     
  2. byrdman

    byrdman Well-Known Member

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    yellow feet...yellow bill....beige feathering...looks like pigment....whatever...just mount it ...its a cool bird
     


  3. :D
     
  4. Nancy C

    Nancy C Well-Known Member

    LOL -- you should let it go, byrdman. It's okay to be mistaken - I know, because I've had lot's of experience in that area. (Being mistaken, that is.)

    Albinos have red blood, too, and yes - it is caused by a pigment - but it's the lack of melanin that makes a creature an albino, not the lack of carotenoid-based pigments or hemoglobin.
    Albinos can have very deep yellow fat, depending in part on what they eat, and it will definitely show through whereever their skin is thin.

    Pure white feathers will often look yellowish or dingy after exposure to sunlight, and they show dirt very easily. You know that from working with snow geese. It's just what they do, because they aren't very durable.
     
  5. byrdman

    byrdman Well-Known Member

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    yeah know what you mean...folks get so hung up on the whole "albino" thing on here ....that("whatever") was my letting it go...
     
  6. franchi612

    franchi612 New Member

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    even hazel or dark eyes can be expressed though in the recessive white genes. It's a common misconception "albinos" must have pink eyes. There are several different types of white genes. For instance in horses there is such a color as "white" that is not albino, but extreme pinto, and they can have blue or brown eyes. It would be similar to leucism in bids, where an extreme example might not show dark feathers but have dark eyes, or blue eyes also seems to happen. It's very interesting that there are so many similarities in mammals and birds when it comes to color, but then again I suppose melanin expresses the same no matter the animal? It's just that in mammals the genes have been studied and named whereas in birds they have not because so many species are wild, and tame birds may not have pure genes.
     
  7. I'm pretty sure that a requirement of being an oculocutaneous (both hair and eyes are effected) albino (as in, genetically pigment free) is to also have no eye pigment.
    There is also ocular albinism, which effects only the eyes.
    Any other gene that turns the coat or plumage, or scales white, may not effect the eye, but they are also not albino.

    An animal that is hypomelanistic, may be light coloured and also have pink eyes which is one type of albino, causing partial pigment loss.
    Amelenistic is the one we usually think of, being complete and total lack of pigmentation.
    So basically yes. An albino animal of any kind should have pink, or red, eyes.
     
  8. 2wbdft

    2wbdft Member

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    Bought the blanks the other day. I wont be getting to mounting it for awhile but the plan is to paint them the very same way one would a custom fish eye (see JKnuth's tutorial on youtube). Should be pretty straight forward. Its the extremely weak skin im worried about working with.
     
  9. franchi612

    franchi612 New Member

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    http://www.albinism.org/publications/what_is_albinism.html

    even ocular albinism does not produce 100% pink eyes (in humans in this instance) They are so many different ways in which genes can be expressed depending on how they interact with other genes, and we undertand only a minute fraction of how those genes interact
     
  10. franchi612

    franchi612 New Member

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    Also if you will notice I used quotes, inferring the vernacular of albino, which to most people means a white animal. Cremello and perlino horses are sometimes referred to as albino. There is even a color registry called the albino horse registry. They are not of course genetic albinos. With birds, even less seems to be known about color genetics. About the only term in use is leucistic to describe a very wide array of different white combinations. Breeders call the pale ducks apricot. In mammals there are so many more terms such as in horses piebald or pinto had different genes that have been studied and each pattern has a name and can be genetically tested. There is no overo in arabians but there is sabino. Well, how are we to know that birds don't have the exact same pattern of white that are genetically distinct unless it is studied further? What if in leucism there are different genetic patterns like pinto in horses? There is extreme sabino in horses which causes a white horse with dark eyes. These are horses that are no cremello or perlino. Whitetail deer show very similar color patterns. Piebald deer have a pattern that would be similar to sabino. Extreme white deer can have blue or dark eyes. This is why I think that the genes connected to melanin may hve very similar responses in all animals, we just don't have terms to define all of the patterns, nor have most species been genetically studied ti know if this is true
     
  11. Nancy C

    Nancy C Well-Known Member

    Actually, there is a lot which is known about avian color genetics, although there is sure to be more to learn. There has been extensive study of the inheritance of color in domestic ducks, pigeons, chickens, and many types of caged birds, just to name a few.
    Horses are a weird case, because there are no known pink-eyed albinos and it is considered to be impossible in equines (although I remain a skeptic.)

    Leucism, as a term. is so overused that it has become essentially meaningless. The biggest issue that I have with the current usage (by some - but not by all sources) is that it is also being applied to piebald creatures. A piebald creature can still produce it's full spectrum of pigment (that is, unless it is ALSO leucistic, which is quite possible, but is usually only seen in captivity.)

    Leucism affects the entire body, so if a creature is leucistic it will not have any normal-colored areas at all, not even a single hair, with the possible exception of its eyes which might appear normal.
    Some forms of leucism are alleles of albinism, which means that the mutation affects the same gene that causes complete albinism.
    Birds also have a mutation, much like horses and several other animals, called dominant white. Dominant white individuals are sometimes even whiter than true albinos, possibly because the pigment production sequence is interrupted at an earlier stage in the process, although I don't know the specifics. Inheritance-wise, it acts sort of like super-piebald, with one giant white spot. White homing pigeons are usually dominant white, and they are stark, briliant white, while "white" doves are usually true albinos, and have creamy white plumage with a faint hint of their normal neck ring as well as pink eyes.
    Albino big game animals are usually creamy white, but piebald ones will usually be brilliant white in their white areas.

    It is a very complex topic, but it is fair to say that there are a LOT of possible mutations involved. The process of forming and distributing pigment can be interrupted in dozens of ways that we know of, and there are probably more to discover
    Even in birds, there are different forms of piebald, as well as conditions which are equivalent to progressive roaning as well as grizzle.
    They can be handicapped in producing melanin but not phaeomelanin, or vice-versa. (Compare apricot wood ducks to silver wood ducks.)

    Just to add to the fun, birds also have structural colors, and those can become altered if a mutation affects the microscopic structures that refract specific hues.
     
  12. Nancy I sure wish you were a 'mouse' person, we would have a hell of a time chatting about genetics. :D
     
  13. Nancy C

    Nancy C Well-Known Member

    I used to raise fancy mice "back in the day" but I never studied their color genetics while I had them. I had tri-colored ones that all descended from some that I originally purchased to feed my snakes. They had some babies that were too pretty to be feeders, so I kept them to be my breeders. Withing a few months I was DEEP in pretty mice. Looking back, with what I know now, they were all black and tan based, but they also carried at least two dilute factors as well as the pied factor. I never knew what surprises a new litter was going to produce.
    I am reasonably familiar with cat color genetics, and many of the mutations that affect them are common to other mammals as well, including mice.
     
  14. All mice are either black, or agouti based. Any 'tan' mice are C locus dilutes on either a black, or agouti based mouse, who can also have any other number of factors affecting the shade it turns. . .

    Oh man, way off topic now. :D :D
     
  15. drakeman

    drakeman Active Member

    And speaking Greek! ::)
     
  16. Nancy C

    Nancy C Well-Known Member

    LOL @ Drakeman!! Sorry! Genetics stuff can be mind-numbing unless you really like it.

    Okay, Rasputin, I admit that I'm not familiar with the accepted color terminology for mice. What I meant was that mine were the kind that are marked like rottweilers. Black on the back and tan underneath, with tan dots above their eyes. Some were diluted to a silvery mauve, some were diluted to a pale apricot-ish color (again, probably not the correct terms, but you know what I mean, right?) some became a sort of dark chocolate brown. All of them had white spots or patches as well.

    In cats their base colors would have been called black, chocolate, lavender and cream. I'm pretty sure they were not agoutii.

    I have never seen anything remotely like them for sale at a pet shop, although admittedly I haven't tried very hard to find any.
     
  17. Rotty markings, those are called 'black tans'!

    Here you go:
    http://www.hiiret.fi/eng/breeding/varieties/black_tan.html
     
  18. Redneck Express

    Redneck Express New Member

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    Is the goose mounted yet
     
  19. KansasBuck

    KansasBuck New Member

    I feel like I should get a degree or something after reading this post. Amazing