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tanning with lutan f

Discussion in 'Tanning' started by timstaxidermy, Feb 25, 2012.

  1. timstaxidermy

    timstaxidermy Member

    hi everyone, just printed off a tanning procedures listing from the forums on lutan.
    noticed it said to use 10% lutan f and 1% bascal s
    and 1% sodium formate also. what is sodium formate???
    never seen it listed or added in anyones formulas for using lutan before.
    is something ready available under a different name perhaps..
    This listing is sure conflusion as it states a formula 2 and 3 and no formula 1 on it.
    no mentions of pickling at all.
    any ideas out there??
  2. navajo

    navajo New Member

    Re: Re: tanning with lutan f

    http://www.vandykestaxidermy.com/Lutan-F-Tan-W130.aspx thats how I have always done it.

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  3. Keyda81

    Keyda81 I'd rather be weird than normal

    X2. I follow the exact same instructions. Haven't had any problems. I've only tanned a few squirrel, deer and coyote tails, and one deer cape though.
  4. taxidermyfun

    taxidermyfun New Member

    I to have followed these instructions with great results. I have also followed the instructions on the container of lutan f from mckenzie that goes by weight. both work great. I have pulled on hair and skin hard, the hair sets very well. I am very pleased with this tan.
  5. Before posting instructions from suppliers , could you please check with someone with a chemistry background as to wether you are posting the correct info ! This subject has been discussed MANY times so try using the search function !
  6. muscle20

    muscle20 New Member

    Sodium formate HCOONa is used as a buffering agent, do not have to worry about using it in your lutan tanning process, use a pickle in the process and put enough acid in the pickle to maintain at a pH of 2.0 or lower.
  7. navajo

    navajo New Member

    Re: Re: tanning with lutan f

    Poor miserable nts. The guy wanted some help so I gave him an answer along with a few others. Then you have to come along and put your two cents in. what did you accomplish? Nothing. So shut up. People that are new don't no what has been covered. he said he did a search and couldn't find what he needed to know. Why spend hours searching when someone can answer your question? Why do people on here get so mad when a new person asks for help? Can't you just think to yourself "hum thats been covered" and read past it. Or if you know where it is covered on the forum post a link.

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  8. Rhino

    Rhino Too many irons in the fire will put the fire out!

    The Aussie is right! Those instructions ARE WRONG! Neutralising , before tanning with Lutan, MEANS YOU TANNED NOTHING!

    You didnt have any problems? Of course you didnt, BUT you just mounted a pickled skin, that didnt tan AT ALL!!! The pickle is what locks hair in!

    This is the last time I am going to post on this topic!

    THE CORRECT WAY TO TAN WITH LUTAN, is to leave the SKIN ACIDIC, before exposing it to the tan! LUTAN is searching for ACIDIC COLLEGEN to attach to.

    I have even went through the trouble of posting LUTAN INSTRUCTIONS, STRAIGHT from BASF, the manufacture of this product, and it still gets ignored.

    Sodium Formate, is a masking agent, that allows for slower tan uptake, and more uniform penetration.

    KNOBLOCHS has the correct instructions on their website, and always have!
  9. msbraintan

    msbraintan New Member

    Well that's great to know.. might as well blow smoke up this blonde coyotes a$$.
  10. Keyda81

    Keyda81 I'd rather be weird than normal

    Quoted from the breakthrough mammal taxidermy manual: "Pickled skins are too acidic to be tanned. If they were placed directly in a tanning solution, the ionized skin protein would attract the tanning chemical to rapidly resulting in a barrier, or surface tan. This is a rapid build up of chemical on the surface of the leather which prohibits complete penetration of the agent resulting in a poor tan, or no tan at all on the inside. Therefore they are neutralized in a solution of 1 oz of sodium bicarbonate (backing soda)per gallon of water."

    I'm sticking with the way I've been doing it, which is by van dyke's instructions. I come out with a white colored leather skin, no slippage, smell, rot or anything else that would indicate that's it' not tanned.
  11. Kevin Halle

    Kevin Halle Well-Known Member

  12. Rhino

    Rhino Too many irons in the fire will put the fire out!

    That "surface tanned" expression, comes straight out of a "leather Tanners" book. That term is used to describe the tanning of "thicker leathers", used for purposes other than Taxidermy.

    Taxidermy skins, especially for mounting, will NEVER SEE a surface tan, because they are too thin! Any body, with the "slightest amount" of tanning knowledge, knows it is impossible to "surface tan" a skin, that is less than 1/32 of an inch thick to start with. That is stupid!

    The tan itself is attracted to an acidic skin, then it bonds tightly to the skin as the pH is raised.
    Maybe the folks writing the Breakthrough articles know more than the MFG of the product, and the only wholesale supplier in the USA, of the product?

    I doubt it!

    You keep mounting your pickled skins! Have you ever tried a "curl test", to prove the tan? The Lutan curls at least 30deg F higher, using the method I explained!
  13. Thanks Aubrey , I had "tanned " a couple of flat fallow skins using the VD method , all was good until they had a couple glasses of water spilt on them , they then fell apart , can someone who swears by this method explain to us who know nothing why this happened ? I have used the CORRECT method for 4 years with no problems at all .
    By the way for those who wish to know NTS stands for Northern Taxidermy & Skins , 1 of only about 10 people in Australia that do taxidermy tanning for other taxidermists .
    Please by all means assist those that request help but make sure you are correct when talking about things that you can be proved wrong or right on because if you are wrong someone WILL notice it and tell the rest of the world !
    Have fun voicing your opinion , opinions become fact when they are proved , 1 fact is that assumption is the mother of all @#$%ups !
    cheers Peter , Northern Taxidermy & Skins
  14. Keyda81

    Keyda81 I'd rather be weird than normal

    Well put this into consideration if you will. I did a deer tail using the instructions provided from van dykes, which you guys say is wrong, and it's only pickled skin. After it dried I put the tail on the tailgate of my truck, it is shoved under the edge of the tail gate liner, and it sees every bit of rain, snow, wind, and what ever mother nature decides to throw at it. It's still in one piece, not losing any hair at all. It's been rained on, and snowed on, and blown around in seventy mile an hour winds, and there is nothing wrong with it.
  15. msbraintan

    msbraintan New Member

    So if I take my coyote skin that I THINK is tanned and put it back in the pickle will it then turn back acidic??
  16. navajo

    navajo New Member

    http://www.taxidermy.net/forum/index.php/topic,240066.0.html here is a link on the discussion. nts could have posted this or pointed him in the right direction. it took just as much time to post the link as it would have to write "try using the search function." I myself have never tried oldshavers method but he seems to know his stuff. I think I will have to try his method out myself to see if there is any difference. Keyda81 I am with you still, I have had no problems with VD's method and I have done it that way for 5 years. Right or wrong it has worked for me.

    nts I never said this was the right way, in fact nobody here did. I simply said this was the way I use it. I can't swear by this method for I have only used it for 5 years.

    Oldshaver thanks for pointing out the facts to your method. <---- HELPFULL. Why don't you post a tutorial on lutan f under tanning and skin preparation?
  17. Mike_Siew

    Mike_Siew New Member

    Hi OldShaver,

    I have a bit of experience tanning skins with chrome and vegetable tanning and they both involved pickling and then tanning afterwards. Then, the pH is brought up with neutralization and finally oiled. So, I'm initially puzzled with a different approach by taxidermists using Lutan F or Rittels' EZ Tan. I've no experience with alum based tanning so I assumed the tutorials done by Amy (EZ Tan) and in this discussion is correct. Then, you said it's just pickling if pH is brought up before tanning. I'm confused but I trust you are correct more than others.

    OldShaver, can you also confirmed EZ Tan is also alum-based and hence your method is correct? I'm using EZ Tan soon and is relying on Amy's tutorial to proceed; quite worried now on the correct way to proceed.

    What is the recommended pH for EZ Tan for tanning step???

    Thanks a bunch.
  18. Rhino

    Rhino Too many irons in the fire will put the fire out!

    EZ 100 is a phenoilic tan, not a mineral(alum tan). For this type of tan, Amy is correct, as far as neutralising before the tan.

    Lutan is a mineral tan(aluminum salts), that is used similar to chrome.
  19. cyclone

    cyclone Posts: 400001

    Now just how many times does the man have to post it?









  20. bearrug48

    bearrug48 Active Member

    I use the same method Vandykes gives you to follow.It has worked great for me for many years,but there are those who will tell you it is the wrong way.
    All I know is it works for me.I have never had a hide go bad using this method. It makes great leather especially on fox and coyote.