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if you don't think USFW monitors this site

Discussion in 'For Sale' started by gab, Aug 15, 2012.

  1. skallet roseri

    skallet roseri needless to say!

    i hope they bust DA because people on there have gotten worse. i always find it shady when the same people end up with a few leopard and jag skins just seems fishy when it always "they get them from a Friend." hell even a snow leopard pelt came up a few times. i think its down now.

    that and there was a person on there selling owl and hawk feathers, and every time we said it was illegal they commented back on how we where rude, and being racist ageinst them being Native American and its not illegal, and i know Native American Law! eventually they hid all our comments and soon took them down.

    but the things that go up for sale on DA is getting pretty bad!

    its just amazing how some collectors just don't give a shit about the law, and claim that nothing will ever happen......
     
  2. Todd B

    Todd B Active Member

    Kay and circuitcat, it does not just stop at waterfowl. Crows and doves are also migratory birds that cannot be sold or purchased.


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  3. Eva

    Eva Member

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    For deer antler, my understanding of California law is you can sell natural drop deer antler but not cut off antler. I worked at an Indian store for a bit and that's what they said and that's what we sold. Don't know if the kind of deer mattered though, but I am sure it was not any endangered animals. We got them from another state where the sheds are often found.

    Now for 'Indian law' what I got from local natives here in California is the natives could legally have eagle feather, but only if they were registered natives. Having just blood is not enough, you must be legally native. And you are NOT allowed to sell the feathers even to other natives. All such feathers are gifted. And you are not allowed to kill birds for the feathers obviously. All eagle corpses are actually saved by the authorities, supposedly, for distribution to our legally native populations. Other raptors are probably similar. I know we non natives can't have em. Kinda sucks, as it is actually fairly common to find hawk feathers on the ground around here. The feathers are interesting as they are kinda furry fuzzy like, supposedly to blunt noise in flight. Hawks are all over and like to sit on the power lines and survey the fields for dinner. Also tons of crow feathers all over as them suckers are taking over the universe in recent years. Ironically, the crow super mega mecha zone is the lawn in back of the nearby Starbucks! ;-P
    -Eva
     
  4. yukonjeff

    yukonjeff New Member

    If I remember right ..several years ago USFW even posted on here.. so you know they are reading everyday.
     
  5. There's someone on dA I'd love to see busted for his illegal pelts. He KNOWS they're illegal but he's actively looking for/collecting them. Its horrendous.

    There's quite a few people on dA that need busted for the illegal things they have, shamefully most of them are from Europe.
     
  6. Raynewolfe

    Raynewolfe TY for understanding things outside our control.

    Also, most of those feather originated from the government.. even if gifted by family or elders to another member.. I remember when some of my family worked on an eagle lance.. it took several years after approval for the item before the wing was shipped. It was in pretty rough shape when we got i, though that didnt matter for our purposes. I think it had been smacked by a car though.

    Ive heard, that raptor feathers can be entrusted to a guardian (whether cdib or not) if owned by the tribe or registered member.. but the govt still has to know the addresses and etc of where there kept.. may apply to some but not all areas. not sure on that one.

    Just a small tidbit. :)
     
  7. Raynewolfe

    Raynewolfe TY for understanding things outside our control.

    But people sell dried dove wings all over the place.. :-( Seems strange that something legal to take would be illegal to make use of.
     
  8. RageofAnath

    RageofAnath Will make art for money or dead things.

    Yeah, I try not to even touch birds for this purpose. I don't have much an interest in them to start with, but the fact that they are so regulated makes me even LESS interested. I'll stick with mammals. :p
     
  9. Eva

    Eva Member

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    What birds are safe to have then (and often available)? I am thinking chicken has to be safe LOL! Turkey? What else? I don't really get why you can't have dove and crow but so be it. What about Pidgeon, is that a dove?

    This thing about the flytyers is interesting too. I had assumed stuff or sale by flytyers was legal. I am not a flytyer nor am I taxidermist. Can I have flytyer stuff or do they have a special designation/license or what?
    -Eva
     
  10. In WI you can't buy or sell wild turkey parts. In other states it may be legal. Game bird regs vary from state to state but the migratory bird law is federal and is the same in all 50 states. In MN, starlings, rock doves (common barn pigeons), house sparrows, Eurasian collared doves, chukar partridge, and monk parakeets are unprotected. That list may vary from state to state.

    Bruce
     
  11. horsefeathers

    horsefeathers Member

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    The saying I have used is "If you can't eat it, you can't keep it". It's legal to have game-bird/waterfowl parts, but you can't sell them unless you can prove they were from a game-bird farm (It's often as simple as having a receipt from when and where you bought the birds). They usually don't give a whiff about domestic species. I am not sure what kinds of rules captive propagation of raptors is under, but I think it is safe to assume feathers from those birds are illegal to own, regardless. It gets even more confusing when you have a species that IS legal to hunt in one state, but is protected in another - case in point, I heard a rather sordid case involving a legally killed sandhill crane that the owner tried to bring to California with him. I seem to remember the outcome wasn't very good.
     
  12. Eva

    Eva Member

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    Yeah, a long list of 'nos.' Seemed shorter to just as what WAS allowed? No turkey selling in WI eh? But I assume they EAT turkey there!?! Some laws are just plain weird. OK, so far I have one thing on my list of OK birds and that is chicken. Maybe turkey if not in WI. Anything else? To be clear, I am interested in what can be sold, not just had. Ironically, as far as I know you can sell live doves so makes me kinda laugh to think you can't sell em once they die..
    -Eva
     
  13. Wish the USFW would also monitor other sites too. I've found some stuff on websites like Etsy where people where clearly selling items illegally. For example, just yesterday I found out a seller on there is selling old crow and owl mounts which she is claiming its perfectly legal and is fed up people tell her that. Last I read up on my bird laws, pre-banned or not, owl mounts are illegal to sell in the US. The crows she claimed were European Crows but I really find it very skeptical that she has the paperwork to prove that.
     
  14. Eva

    Eva Member

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    Krysta, I saw that too and was also thinking about it when reading this thread. When you go to Etsy.com they like to list your 'taste test' potential likes on the front page of the site and it really turns the head (hehe) to see a big old taxidermy owl on there! I went to her site and she had a whole FLOCK of taxidermy owls. Claimed they were 'vintage.' Seems unlikely she would have that many vintage of any one thing anyway. Vintage owl taxidermy mounts aren't exactly falling from the skies! ;-P I really hate to think where she is getting those from really. Also another time, someone on Etsy contacted me to try to sell me some primate skulls. She even had an Etsy site where she sold them direct and had a number of sales already. I responded asking about paperwork and legality and she had none of either, not surprisingly. Just kept saying she had good prices!

    Actually, those are the only two I can think of that I've seen and that second one with the primate skulls I don't think is in the country so probably not easy to get at. Etsy has offenders but I don't think it's as bad as Ebay.

    BTW, vervet monkey skulls are illegal aren't they? World wildlife products is selling them on ebay. I am a bit surprised because that is a big brick and morter company and I have bought some gator stuff from them in the past. They are a big direct importer, so if it can be legally imported, they could likely do it. I had gotten the impression that all primate was a big nono, but I've never really looked into it.
    -Eva
     
  15. Vervet's aren't illegal to sell. As goes for baboon's.
     
  16. CindarellaPop

    CindarellaPop New Member

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    Etsy can get REALLY bad. I found someone selling what they claimed to be TIGER parts there, namely, the claws from a vintage rug. Of course there was no mention of paperwork nor of only selling them within their home state... I've found people selling dog and cat pelts there too. Including one very lovely vest that was obviously made of grey and white tabby cat.
     
  17. Light Rail Coyote

    Light Rail Coyote Active Member

    A lot of the so-called "tiger" parts on Etsy seem to be fakes. Same goes for eBay.
     
  18. Todd B

    Todd B Active Member

    [/quote]It's legal to have game-bird/waterfowl parts, but you can't sell them unless you can prove they were from a game-bird farm[/quote]

    Horse feathers info is good except the part about having waterfowl parts. That is NOT legal. You can have the parts as long as they are tagged while in your posession, but once you are done with them they have to be returned. This is according to 50 CFR 21.24 subsection c. You need to be very careful when trying to understand the regulations. They are similar to reading the Bible, they can be interpreted many ways and any reader will interpret things differently. But the USFW will enforce it however they interpret it at the time and it can cost you thousands in legal fees proving otherwise. The best thing you can do is go above and beyond with your record keeping no matter how anal it may seem it can only help.

    Todd B
     
  19. J Brown - I'm curious why you say vervets and baboons aren't illegal to sell? ANY primate is cites II unless it's cites I, right?

    Eva - I've seen the guy you're talking about on ebay "Worldwildlifeproducts" selling vervets and baboons, but he does appear to have the proper cites permits. Next time you see one of his auctions, scan down and he'll even have the cites number in the auction so you can check.

    I'm amazed at some of the things that go up for auction on etsy and ebay. hahaha It's hard to know what you can and can't buy... you certainly can't trust the guy selling it to be looking out for your best interests. Hell, half the time they don't even appear to be looking out for their own!!
     
  20. Eva

    Eva Member

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    Cindarella, wow! Pet pelts eh? I have seen some made of the woven natural shed hair but none of the skin too. Maybe from China? As for some of that other stuff, tiger, etc, I figure some are probably fake but then again, maybe not. Etsy takes a while to catch offenders. so people probably can make money for a goodly while before they get caught. If it's really bad, there is actually a 'report this item' button on the listings.

    So vervet and baboon are legit if with proper cites papers eh? Interesting. Does that mean if I buy one with proper CITES papers, I can then resell it with those same papers? (assuming no state laws contradict)? I suspect World WIldlife is probably trustworthy with the CITES. They are in the US and have been around a long time. They'd be crazy to run any risks of illegality.
    -Eva