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NTA- Get it off my chest

Discussion in 'The Taxidermy Industry' started by Kim Owens, Feb 2, 2013.

  1. Kim Owens

    Kim Owens Are we there yet?

    I am so proud of the direction the membership is going with this NTA mess. I just read an email from a wife of a past NTA board member and it stirred so many buried memories in my mind. I am proud that Fred and Harry have fought this battle and that they have the belief and the resources to follow though to make the board and the ED stand up or shut up. I am so proud to see so many members support them and want a change of leadership in the NTA. Danny and I support and have supported every move that has been made in that direction. With that said, after reading that email, I could not help but remember how our friend and her husband were treated at the hands of some members of the NTA board and the ED and his wife. Then I thought about the board member who had a taxidermy school and approached the board with an idea about raising money by having official NTA sponsorships such as what they have in NASCAR and other sports and I was there when the board voted to grant him official NTA status for his business. He jumped the gun and announced it earlier than they wanted and all hell broke loose. They said he was wrong and crucified him for his actions. The next meeting they tried to remove him from office for not paying his dues by January 1. They acted like the vote never took place. It did. It passed and the board lied to the membership about it. As far as the dues- we never paid our dues by January 1. Never, well, maybe once in 15 years. When Danny was nominated for the board, he had not paid his dues. He was elected. No one said one word. He paid his dues when he registered for the convention that year, which would have been in May or June. By that time, he had already won the election. It was only after his 1st board meeting when he saw the way the board worked and he was far from the ‘yes’ man they thought he was, that the issue of when dues were paid came into play. There was the female board member who was sexually harassed in a board meeting and it was seen by all and the ethics director said there was no reason for him to be reprimanded for his actions. I could go on and on listing this kind of abuse brought on to members of the board by other members of the board but it’s not worth digging up all the hurt. The fact remains, the NTA ED and board members destroyed livelihoods and lives of respectable people. They did not care about whom they hurt and they hid behind God’s good word. They convinced others that they were right in their beliefs and that good people were bad. This is what made NTA board members revolt. They did this for you, NTA members. You deserved an organization that was for you, taxidermist and taxidermy. This status quo of the NTA was not delivering this for the membership. I am embarrassed to say, we were followers at one time. We were blinded by the light. There were heroes before the board Danny was involved in. Jan Van Hoesen, Roger Martin, Sally Dahmes, Tommy Ray and others. They tried to change the flow of destruction but they too were turned away. The board of 2006 or 7, I can’t remember when all hell broke loose and I threw everything away that would remind me, was a determined bunch. They fought so hard for the membership to stop the cancer but it wasn’t enough. Some resigned and those that didn’t were slammed with the fraudulent four letter. Can you imagine if a letter full of untruths was sent to people all over the United States about you and your family? I was a part of that letter and I can tell you it was hurtful. It caused problems with my job and my self esteem but it didn’t do anything to me that it did to some of the taxidermists and families that were listed in that letter. It changed lives forever. Some will never recover. How terrible it was for someone to take it upon themselves to do something like that. And that my friends, was your NTA at its finest.
    My point of this post is this-my email from our friend today made me contemplate where all this renewed support of Fred and Harry and the oust of the board members and the Crains has come from, and I applaud it. But, there are people who deserve a public apology from some that have seen the light. Six or 7 years ago when the board from which I speak had a majority to vote Greg out of office, some turned coat. JJ had a change of heart and backed out and Joel Edwards had his first chance at being a yes man. Funny thing about it, some that were convinced that Danny and other were wrong- now are backing the movement to make the changes. Nothing has changed, it’s all the same. I believe it’s because they know the law is coming and they don’t want to be held responsible for the actions of the board. If you were a member and you were told what was going on and you chose to ignore it, you are responsible. Oh happy day! I’m not picking on John, he and I have discussed this and he is truly sorry for his decisions. George Roof was no better but has since realized the damage they have done and the mistakes he made. Correct George? There are those of you out there right now that thought some of these people were malcontents, low life’s, troublemakers, etc. but now you have changed your mind. That does not help those that have suffered. You turned your back on them. You stopped ordering forms from them. You talked bad in private conversations and not so private conversations about them and their lives have changed because of you. You owe these people an apology. It maybe won’t change their lives but then, maybe it will. Tonight when you lay down to bed- give a heads up to these people- Jan Van Hoesen, Roger Martin, Tommy Ray, Steve Faechner, Dan Reinhardt, Brenda Devall, Manny Chavez, Tony Finazzo, Danny Owens, Barb and John Lager, and others that I am sure I have forgotten- and I am truly sorry for that and feel free to please add your names because we celebrate you!
  2. antlerman

    antlerman NTA Life Member #0118

    Most excellent letter Kim. I hope others with stories from the past also share their experiences. We can not know where we're going if we don't know where we've been. Thank You for enlightening us to some of the past. A past I pray we don't allow to be repeated.

  3. shammy

    shammy New Member

    I thank you for the post Kim. Very interesting, It is long overdo that the membership finally has a understanding of what was going on at the time. I personally had no idea and read very little about things that were taking place. I have learned alot about it since this thread has kept going. I thank you all for your postings, justice will prevail.
  4. Kim & Danny, your great people. I judge PA show one yr with Danny and what a stand up guy,
    Come to think of it ALL the people that were on the board and resigned , were stand up people.
    Thank you for this post & both of you for joining the stand.

    [email protected]

    Gregg Ielfield
  5. Harry Whitehead

    Harry Whitehead I love to hunt Buffalos!!!!!

    Kim, it is so true that lives have been changed for the worse by the NTA and it's current leadership. All for the sake of greed and power. We cannot let it continue but there are some things that people need to understand. Fred and I have been fighting this thing for several years now. Along the way people were getting bored with what we were doing because nothing seemed to go as fast as they thought it should. I too wish it could have moved faster but with all the chess matches it just took time. It's going to take time from this point on as well. There is information that has to be collected and signatures acquired and demands given and actions documented. These people are devious and you may rest assured that they will do everything in their power to circumvent giving up anything especially information that will incriminate them. What I am asking you today is to NOT get bored and decide that you just don't care anymore. We will post what we can when we can but you also have to understand that is some cases we don't want to give up our position if it can be used against us. We are in contact with Tim and Gregg and a host of other prominent people in this industry that want this thing put to rest and I'm making a promise to you now, WE WILL NOT GIVE UP!!!! Please, don't you give up either......
  6. EA

    EA Well-Known Member

    Very Interesting stuff. Thanks for sharing Kim.
  7. Kim Owens

    Kim Owens Are we there yet?

    I have to add something so very important- shame on me for forgetting someone who was instrumental in all of this back years ago. Craig Lewis worked as hard, if not harder than anyone mentioned above. He was the one who kept everyone from jumping off a bridge because he was the one with common sense and a busines mind. Craig was actually the person who discovered that Greg had let the NTA's 501 status expire. Yes, Greg let the NTA's 501 status EXPIRE! I am sorry, Craig. Love you so much!
  8. George

    George The older I get, the better I was.

    Before I start this, I want some of you to know that Kim Owens and I have a love/hate relationship. We tend to be like brother and sister in our fights and we often disagree with each other. Less than a week ago, I sent her a PM telling her I still loved her. Still, what she remembers and what I remember may differ in slight ways.

    Now if you have something to do, go do it. This one's gonna get long I'm sure.

    For those who remember and those who haven't a clue, when I served on the board, I spent a great deal of time and money trying to protect the membership. I worked 7 conventions and though I was given a "free" room, the room would have been better served by someone else. I never recall having worked less than a 12 hour day during a convention and most days they went 16 to 20. One year, I worked 22 straight hours in insuring seminars went off, signage was in place, people were registered on time and properly and working both the supply areas for vendors and the competition area for gripes and complaints. I don't want or need any thanks for any of that. I loved every second of it and I did it because I wanted to do it.

    Still, Kim remembers things one way and I another. I wouldn't be writing now if my name hadn't been invoked, so understand that straight up.

    When I got to the board, the first onerous job I had was to make the ill fated/dumbassed mandate that Don Holt had dreamed up (affiliation) work. It wasn't something I wanted but it had already been decided before I sat down that it would become the rule. At that first meeting, I called for the board to rethink the issue and to make the decision on a "trial" basis. If we saw membership decreasing or we saw unrest, we should pull the plug. My motion -like many over that span- never got a "second" and never went to a vote. Being a life-long military guy, I'd challenged, been overruled, and now my job was to try and make it work.

    That military theme has been with me since I was 18. My dear friend Ken Walker once told me that the only thing you can take to the grave with you is your integrity and I've believed that for as long as I can remember. MANY of the board members know that I am a stickler for protocol. Both Kim and Harry can attest (though it may not comfort them to do so) that when I see ANYONE in a position of responsibilty becoming a distraction to the organization, I WILL call them out. Kim and Harry aren't the only ones who know this either. I was instrumental in getting John Janelli out of the NTA after he had an emotional crash. I was also instumental in bringing him back to the fold when his contrition was complete. I was the guy who had Joe Kish fired during an NTA Convention Competition because of the appearance of impropriety. I was the one who filed ethics charges against Dan Rinehart for being almost a year in arrears for his dues (And Kim, I used the issue of how Danny had been treated for being tardy for a couple months as reference in my charge. BTW, the charges were dismissed.)

    I won't deny I was used, but when it happened, it was still a decision I felt right about making. I don't have any regrets except that I never found out exactly how the board seemed to always be stacked in favor of shady dealings.

    I'm sure Kim was referring to Dan in her mentioning the "supplier". That was two sleazy parties vieing against each other. First off, Dan demanded an "executive session" to "discuss" the issue of sponsorship. I told Mark Wilson(then president) that he should NOT move the discussion there as it was NOT "personnel" related business. I was overruled and the room was cleared. We spent an hour listening to his commercial spiel. I was livid and I told Mark it was an abuse of "executive decision". When he was finished, a motion had to be decided on before we went back into session. The motion was that Dan Rinehart would be allowed to sponsor the NTA ONLY IF THE LAWYER DECIDED IT WAS NOT A CONFLICT OF INTEREST OR IT VIOLATED ANTI-TRUST LAWS.

    We went into open session, the motion was made and passed with TWO abstentions with me being one. Within one week, we were notified by another supplier that Dan was advertising that his school was the "official" school of the NTA. I raised holy hell and the "sponsorship" was revoked.

    Next came a convention where, because of the ceremonies involved, Kim and Danny along with Steve Faechner and his wife needed to be seated up front at the banquet. I insured that a sign was placed on the table. When the doors opened, Dan and Kim were in my face in that a table hadn't been reserved. I had no clue as to what they meant because I'd put the sign there myself. I went to that table and asked the people who'd already seated themselves if they'd mind moving as that table had to be reserved. When I looked around, the sign was on the floor under the table. Though today I have suspicions, I have no proof that it was done intentionally with malice.

    Next is the infamous "letter". It was a tactless letter with disparaging remarks about 4 of the board members. When I saw it, I thought it was quite unprofessional and said so. I know that letter was mailed at the same time Bill Haynes was sending out letters to members seeking their vote in being elected president over me. (I've never mailed a letter or card to anyone in either time I ran for president. Perhaps that's why I wasn't elected, but somehow I don't think that either.) Several of the people who had their character impugned came to me over the issue. To each of them I said that though the letter was a cheap trick, I could not argue with some of the statements made in it. I KNEW these people, I KNEW things they'd done, and though I'd never have put them on a public format, I also know that I wouldn't lie for ANYONE. One person cursed me up one side and down the other (it wasn't Kim or Danny, though they probably thought it). This individual had been named to replace me as seminar chair. Three weeks before the convention, I'd had major surgery with a disk removed from my back. I was in a brace and popping percocet like Chiclets. I got there and was told this person couldn't help me because he was sick. It was funny that this guy was seen several times that day walking his dog that shared his room, but was too "sick" to help me. Needless to say, my sympathy switch was locked down in the "off" position. The other charges stemmed from alcohol.

    I eventually found out who penned the letter and mailed it, but I still don't believe he wrote it. He had no way of knowing some of those things without being put up to it and his mental state was always in question. Sadly, he committed suicide shortly afterwards so we'll never know.

    Some of you may or may not know I have little tolerance for those who can't control their own consumption. GI or not, I simply abhor anyone who, because of alcohol, makes an ass of themselves and if that person is supposed to be serving in an official capacity, I have even less tolerance. Sorry who that offends, it's the way I am and I'm not going to change. I often commented that absolutely too much gossip took place in the convention bar room after liquor loosened too many tongues. Even AFTER I left the board, I had no problem calling board members out when told of such incidents and those of you whom I called know it as well.

    Craig Lewis was new to the board and I was told that he had, without board direction, begun an investigation into records keeping and that he'd visited the treasurers home. I sent him a scathing letter asking him when God had died and left him in charge.

    Don't let physical looks deceive you. Craig Lewis is a pitbull and instead of being intimidated, he sent ME a letter that told me where I could start packing sand. That led one of us (I don't recall whom) to call the other. When the smoke settled, we both found a kinship in doing the right thing and how we both held honesty and integrity above all else. We became and continue to be very good friends.

    I noted earlier that in my final term the advertising of Greg's contract came up. The position was supposed to be advertised, but it never quite made it. When we got to the winter board meeting, I knew there were enough votes (or damned close) to expell Greg. I don't know if Kim thinks I'm the "turn coat" or not, but my position is still what it was then. We went into executive session (and don't ANYONE even TRY to tell me about the "rule" of disclosing "executive session" comments. It's a joke as that's always been used to quiet people. After that mess with Dan Rinehart told me about the credibility of NTA Executive Sessions). I pleaded with the board that we'd allowed this to go too far and that we were too late to fire Greg at that time. This was the middle of February and the convention was only 3 months away. Greg had all the contracts and agreements along with having made the personal contacts. To fire him risked the destruction of all that information in spite and the NTA would be left in total disarray at the most critical time. MY SUGGESTION was that we have the president (Bill Haynes) appoint a committee to draw up a legal contract for the position and that AT THE CONVENTION, the board would decide if the contract sufficed and it would be offered to Greg. If he rejected it, the contract would then be published so that we could get an ED onboard to work the NEXT CONVENTION. The "10 year" option was there, but we said we'd discuss it.

    When we came out, that was the motion made and Bill Haynes picked the committee. I was a bit perplexed when he called my name, Craig Lewis and Frankie Thompson to write this contract.

    As you know, neither Craig nor I let moss grow under our feet. We were told that Frankie had personal business and couldn't participate at that time. Craig and I went to work drawing on our life's experience in what a valid contract must contain. We began with "duties and responsibilities". We talked often on the phone (We'd later be accused of spending hundreds of dollars "scheming" to get rid of Greg. That's a bald faced lie and I challenge anyone to say that to either of us. Since Craig and I were paying our own phone bills, I don't know how that should concern anyone anyway.) Since Greg Crain was the ED and "responsible for day to day operations of the NTA" we felt that the "Administrative Section" whom he directed should be under his supervision. We saw no way he could function without supervising that position REGARDLESS of who served there.

    We sent that portion to Bill Haynes. Within 2 hours, Greg Crain was on the phone to me. In tones and language I'd never heard from him before, he told me that under no circumstances would he supervise "Cindy". I told him that it wasn't an option and that if something happened to "Cindy" he'd still need to supervise SOMEONE in that position. He said he'd never sign that contract and hung up. I called Craig and we were resolute that it needed to stay there. When I hung up, it was Bill Haynes. He told me that Frankie totally disagreed with what we'd written. I asked him where the hell Frankie had been and since he'd as of yet participated in this job, I don't know what his input had to do with anything. Bill said well, he and Frankie wouldn't sign off and I reminded him of the board meeting and what had led to this point. Craig and I were still working on this a few days later when Bill called and said that if we didn't change the wording, he'd remove us from the job. I called Craig and told him I was resigning.

    Craig told me to cool my wheels and that we should continue doing the right thing. He assured me that if Bill intervened, we would BOTH resign.

    The next day the hammer fell. Bill Haynes called me and told me that our work was no longer necessary. He told me that he, Frankie, Archie Phillips and Al Holmes had written a 10 year contract and that Greg and Cindy had already signed it with the approval of a "majority of the board through phone calls". I called Craig and we both resigned from the board within minutes of each other.

    A year later, I decided to run for president. My challenger was Tony Finazzo. We fought the good fight and it got a bit heated but nothing to tear our friendship and respect that I KNEW OF. As the election drew close however, my wife Connie had cancer reappear. It was just too much as I was her sole caregiver and I decided I needed to drop out. Sensing something was amiss, I held off. Tony and I were the only ones on the ballot, but rumblings made me think soething was going on to prevent Tony from being elected. I intentionally waited until after the nominations were closed. I was told that Tony and I were the only ones who'd been nominated. It was then that I dropped out of the race. Imagine my shock when the ballot came and Tony was now competing with Frankie Thompson. How Frankie's name suddenly materialized after the nominations were closed is left only to your imagination.

    The final straw the election of Joel Edwards. I'd heard that he would run "unopposed" and I thought it was an insult that anyone could get elected unopposed. That's when I started getting phone calls again. John Janelli was the first and his statement puzzled me. He said that he felt that I shouldn't challenge Joel and that I needed to run for the board so I could get up to speed on the association. I told him that it hadn't changed in the last 10 years so why would that be a requisite. I already met the criteria for running against him and at that time, there was no one else. On my birthday, I was surprised to see a strange vehicle in my driveway. In it was John Janellie, his wife Carol, Cindy Crain and Lori Wolk. I was told Cindy and Lori were visiting and just thought they'd drop by. JJ and Cindy got me in the shop and extolled the virtues of me not running against Joel. I told them I wasn't changing my mind and after a short stay, they left.

    I guess I'll never forget the image of the convention when the results were read. I stood in the back as I already knew by the way I was being avoided that I would not be the "chosen one". When Greg announced that Joel had won, there was a cheer from several board members and JJ actually knocked over several folding chairs to embrace Joel on his election. Steve Wolk was standing right beside me and remarked, "George, you don't seem to be upset?" I turned to him and said, "There's nothing to get upset over. It could have been worse. I COULD have been elected." I walked away and congratulated Joel. Then, as I did at every convention, I helped with the auction process while the rest of the board members went to the bar.

    My limit was reached about a year later. Joel basically abandoned his position, not even bothering to show up at a board meeting. The next years ballots had been set. Steve Wolk moved up into the president's position, but had been put on the ballot as running unapposed for VICE-president. John Janelli was running again for the BOD. After the election it was announced that Steve Wolk would be president (an office he never ran for) and that John Janelli was VICE PRESIDENT (also a position he'd not run for). I DO, however, know that I and 4 others at least had handscribed John's name in for President. When I called John and asked what had gone on, he played it down but I informed him that since Joel didn't run and the post was vacant, then HE should have been named president and Steve Wolk as vice president since that's what he'd run for. John told me Greg had informed him that "write in's don't count" (The hell they don't. It was in the bylaws specifically adressing the matter.) But I figured by that time there was little need to push the system as it was corrupt beyond repair.

    It's a sad and pitiful thing that our national association had managed to become an ego trip for some. I'd like to HOPE, that one day it gets back afloat to what it was intended to be 40 years ago.
  9. Kim Owens

    Kim Owens Are we there yet?

    Hey Geoerge- you and I do have a love/hate relationship and I'ver enjoyed it for many years. In the long run, we always seem to end up side by side.
  10. Paul C

    Paul C New Member

    Typical Crain twisting of the truth. Michelle Reed and I were elected to the Board by WRITE IN ONLY!
  11. antlerman

    antlerman NTA Life Member #0118

    George, from the bottom of my heart Thank You. I just knew I could count on you and that you would show up at some point.

    This is not a confrontational thread folks. It's a history thread. Something many of us need to hear in order to understand. Many people have been hurt. It's time that some healing begins. Truths told and a reunification of old warriors.

    Who is next? Craig, Tony, Brenda??????? Anyone......we would LOVE to hear from everyone. Paul, you too.

    This IS the right direction folks. So proud of everyone so far. Please, lets keep it going. Let the history be told.
  12. Paul C

    Paul C New Member

    I'll be happy to dig through my "NTA files" Tim. It might take a while. There is also a TON of stuff to be found here---some of which Crain actually responded to. In the meantime look up "NTA Resignation" and reference my name as I posted it here.
  13. EA

    EA Well-Known Member

    Thank's George. I'm enjoying (if that's the right word) learning about the history and how things came to be.
  14. antlerman

    antlerman NTA Life Member #0118

    Paul, Is this what you were referring to? Wow, a bunch of reading over there in the old forums as well. Just asking once again, lets bury some hatchets, ok. Thanks. We don't need any more fighting, we need to stay focused on the task at hand. This is a history lesson. One where we can focus in on the problems of the past and fix them. But this stuff is vital to understanding.


    Submitted by Paul Czarnecki on 8/4/99. ( [email protected] )

    Last year I was elected to the NTA Board of Directors by a write-in vote. I eagerly accepted the position because I knew, after judging the Buffalo show, that the NTA desperately needed help. With NTA membership stagnant at around 2100 for the last 3 or 4 years (while the number of taxidermists in this country is around 100,000) I thought I might be able to help. Joe Walter, the current Board of Directors and I took the Pennsylvania Taxidermists Assoc. from 225 members and about $1000 in the bank to 360 members and over $20,000 in the bank in only 3 years. We did this by asking the membership what they wanted and then doing our best to accomplish that. We recently adopted a Health Insurance program available to all of our members. I thought similar things could be accomplished with the NTA. However, from the very first Board Meeting I attended it became apparent that the membership body of the NTA would never have a say in its direction. Almost immediately upon my becoming a Director I was hearing things like, "The members just don't know what is good for this organization" and "The membership just doesn't understand how things work around here." I also quickly discovered that as a Freshman Director my opinion mattered very little. I expressed concerns from members about what happened in Buffalo and tried to get the membership some sort of concrete explanation about what happened but was quickly shot down. I accepted the position of "Competition Prize Fund Chairman" because I felt I could do some good in that area FOR THE MEMBERS. However, I quickly discovered that in the past 2 years the Prize Fund had been sufficiently sabotaged by dishonesty and mis-management so as to make it nearly impossible to obtain donations. Most suppliers said they were tired of donating money and not knowing where it went and then getting little or no credit for it. I persisted and eventually got $4850 for the Prize Fund. However, the dishonesty continued when I discovered that a $1000 donation secured by Don Holt was actually closer to $100.

    Upon my arrival in Billings, MT. for this year's convention I set to work in the competition room as Assistant to Competition Operations. Joe Walter and I quickly discovered that the NTA computers were a mess to say the least. It seems that Wesley Touchstone brought them to Billings with a 4 year old program but "left the disc at home." The membership list was 4 or 5 months old and for the past several months (at least) NTA Headquarters had been issuing duplicate numbers to new members so that when a member number was typed in the wrong information would come up. This required Joe, Pat Rummans and I to manually enter ALL of the entrant's information. To anyone offended by the long wait, I apologize. While these events were very frustrating I didn't get particularly angry until I overheard Greg Crain apologizing to someone for the computer foul-up by telling him that it was Joe and I that had sabotaged the competition. This is the same man who I later overheard say to a very prominent member that "...the membership has too much say in this organization already."

    These events, coupled with the Al Holmes incident in the Board Meeting on Wednesday in front of a hotel representative and the Al Holmes debacle in the supply room, as well as several other "occurrences" in the past year have caused me to resign my position with the NTA. I tried diligently to work for the people who elected me but got nowhere. I tried to make a good show out of what Greg Crain and Don Holt said would be "the worst show ever!" and was stabbed in the back for it. I'm sure I, as well as the 3 other resigning Board Members, will recieve all sorts of negative publicity from the NTA and that is why I am writing this on the Forum. In fact, rumors are already circulating that Joe Walter and I were kicked out of the NTA for "ethics violations"-- WE WERE NOT KICKED OUT -- WE HAVE RESIGNED!! I apologize to all those members who voted for me but I simply could not devote another year to working with people that I know would stab me in the back just to make themselves look good. Treachery and deceit are the current trademarks of the NTA. If anyone would like more information about what I have discovered or would like a copy of my actual, detailed resignation please call or email me.

    Take care and so long,

    Paul Czarnecki
  15. finazducks

    finazducks EJ is not the only one to have two Wasco Awards

    I want to thank George for his view of the events while being involved with NTA politics. I find them to be very accurate. Honestly I don't know how you can remember them so well. One of the things that happens , and Frankie Thomp[son stated it best when I heard him say, No matter what all we have to do is wait them out. Than they would change it back to the the way they want it. George's story of events when I ran for president was real accurate. I can add a little to that. I thought I could make a difference by becoming President of the NTA. I don't think it was ego driven and I really did care. When Frankie appeared on the ballot (against the rules) I didn't worry about it. I figured if the membership wanted Frankie so be it. I was encouraged to run by many that I respect. People offered to help - making phone calls, sending out campaign letters and basically talking Me up to the membership. Letters were sent by some people that also thought I might be able to do some good, and one supplier paid for an add in TAXIDERMY TODAY. In most years the NTA membership numbers between 1500 and 2000. That year fell somewhere in that range. The average number of members voting in most elections is three to four hundred. I ask George to intervene here because he actually remembers those numbers. The year I ran there were around eight hundred votes cast. and I lost. I always wondered why more people voted that year than almost every other year. Was it because I was such a terrible person? Was it because Frankie Thompson was so popular? or was there another reason. I can't say, but I sure wondered then and I wonder now. I hear dead people. When Greg read Frankie's name I at first felt terrible, but I was OK soon after. And with a little more time I knew I was really lucky I didn't win. The way the board is continually stacked, and malcontents are caused to resign and the way the rules are manipulated to fit the situation. How can anyone really make a difference?
    I want to make a prediction that when Greg's time is up the NTA will die on the vine. He already threatens continuously about how he hasn't been paid. When his contract is up my bet is he will call in his debt and drain the NTA funds.
    Just my opinion formed by things I've seen
  16. antlerman

    antlerman NTA Life Member #0118

    Thank You Tony. About your last statement....not if we get to him first.
  17. Nancy C

    Nancy C Well-Known Member

    What you expect wouldn't surprise me either, Tony, but in addition to that I also feel that there must be a paper shredder and its digital equivalent somewhere around the NTAHQ which have been getting a lot of use lately. That's how much they have lost my trust.
    While there are penalties for failure to keep accurate records, it's likely that those penalties are much less than the ones for outright criminal behavior.
  18. George

    George The older I get, the better I was.

    Tony, I've figured out much of it, but unless that CPA is a shadow puppet, I could never figure out how the elections were manipulated. The year I lost to Bill Haynes, I lost by 60 votes and though the membership was about 2200, there were supposedly only about 360 ballots returned. With Joel Edwards, I lost by about 120 votes, yet the total votes both of us got was more than the total votes cast for the VP and Secretary. Why would anyone vote for the president and not the other two? (Greg once told me that if it was worth it, I should spend $3000 and buy another 60 memberships, use my address, and then have enough votes to sway the numbers) Your run is just as puzzling. When I dropped out, Greg told everyone that when the PTA had endorsed you, it scared me and I quit. What's particularly bothersome is that if I HAD run and Frankie's name DIDN'T appear, were they planning on using ME? None of that makes sense.

    My buddy Craig Lewis tells me in mock chagrin that I, of all people, have no cause to talk about anyone's physical appearance. Sorry Craig, you just remind me more of a Plato than you do an Adonis. LMAO

    Over the years, I know many of you felt my wrath in some of my comments. I'm not blaming my GI background and though I might have used better words, AT THE TIME, I felt I was being pushed in a direction not of my own volition. I have a bad habit of striking back quickly with malice. It's a trait I'm not proud of SOMETIMES, but I suspect they'll bury my ashes sooner than I'll eliminate that habit. I tend to say what I say and then move on. If you were the target of one of those missiles, I assure you it was a dud and is long gone from any harsh feelings on my part. I seem to have an uncanny ability to remember most things that have gone on, so "Forgive and forget" sounds trite to me. Forgiving doesn't eliminate it having taken place and it can't be called back. I can only wish SOME of them had been thought through a bit better. Every day is a new day and hopefully a better one than yesterday was.
  19. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

    Over the years, I know many of you felt my wrath in some of my comments. I'm not blaming my GI background and though I might have used better words, AT THE TIME, I felt I was being pushed in a direction not of my own volition. I have a bad habit of striking back quickly with malice. It's a trait I'm not proud of SOMETIMES, but I suspect they'll bury my ashes sooner than I'll eliminate that habit. I tend to say what I say and then move on. If you were the target of one of those missiles, I assure you it was a dud and is long gone from any harsh feelings on my part. I seem to have an uncanny ability to remember most things that have gone on, so "Forgive and forget" sounds trite to me. Forgiving doesn't eliminate it having taken place and it can't be called back. I can only wish SOME of them had been thought through a bit better. Every day is a new day and hopefully a better one than yesterday was.
    "Now there's the real George we all know and Love, LOL. Anybody who's ever let George piss them off, that right there is the closest thing to an apology you will ever get. You best take it"!
  20. michael p.

    michael p. Getting better with age :)

    I'm wiping a tear from my eye with my left hand and holding a barf bag in my right one ;)