i'll preface to say that i try to do as natural a tanning process as possible, and try to avoid chemicals. i bark tan my hides, and obviously after hair removal neutralizing and completely removing lime is essential and a crucial element to a proper tan. i guess i'll explain my current process, and if anyone has any input, or advice i'm curious to hear about other peoples deliming process. once the hair is off, the hide goes into a tub of about 10 gallons of water, i agitate it regularly, and change the water a few times over the course of a day, then it sits over night, during the night i prepare a fermented bran solution (a drench) and allow the fermentation to take place over 12 hours, where at which point the hide gets placed in the drench and i stir numerous times throughout the day, and is left over night, after 24 hours, the hide is removed, and it's distinguishably more flaccid compared to when it was placed in the drench. at this point it's flesh side is scraped again, then it is placed into a washing cycle in a washing machine, then it goes into it's first tanning liquor. i've been reading about using bates, and pancreatic enzymes seem to be the most natural thing to use, and i'm not interested in using pigeon dung, or dog dung. i have a bunch of friend who raise different kinds of animals, and i thought about processing pancreases to utilize the enzymes, which according to a book i have about rural tanning techniques is as simple as mixing three parts minced pancreas to seven parts ammonium chloride. i guess i feel a bit odd about using an inorganic substance with the pancreas, and have read that Sal ammoniac is a mineral that has similar properties as ammonium chloride.. has anyone every processed a pancreas? if so what is your process?? from what i've read, a bate is done first, then a drench, and then onto the tannin liquor. i'm wondering if it would be more beneficial to sweat hides until the hair slips instead of using lime, which means i can skip a bunch of steps not have to delime.. though my understanding of the deliming process by use of bacterial and enzymatic fermentation also helps to turn the proteids into amino-acids. so if sweating is the process used to remove the hair, is it equally important to bate and drench the hide?? i think this might be a good one for you oldshaver.... any thoughts???? thanks a lot for your thoughts and ideas and willingness to share knowledge!!