1. Welcome to Taxidermy.net, Guest!
    We have put together a brief tutorial to help you with the site, click here to access it.

Just because Greg/Cindy Crain or Bill Haynes says so, Doesn't mean it's TRUE.

Discussion in 'The Taxidermy Industry' started by antlerman, Mar 4, 2013.

  1. antlerman

    antlerman NTA Life Member #0118

    From an on line Question/Answer page concerning Robert's Rules of Order.

    Question 20:
    How can we get rid of officers we don't like before their term is up?

    It depends. If the bylaws just state a fixed term for the officer, such as “two years,” or if they say the officer serves for a specified term “and until [the officer's] successor is elected” (or words to that effect), then the group must use formal disciplinary proceedings, which involve the appointment of an investigating committee, preferral of charges, and the conduct of a formal trial. The procedure is complex and should be undertaken only after a careful review of Chapter XX of RONR.

    On the other hand, if the bylaws state a term for the office but add “or until [the officer's] successor is elected,” or contain other wording explicitly indicating that the officer may be removed before the term expires, then the officer can be removed from office by a two-thirds vote, by a majority vote when previous notice has been given, or by a vote of the majority of the entire membership -- any one of which will suffice. A successor may thereafter be elected for the remainder of the term.

    I believe answer one applies.
    This is what Robert's Rules of Order says:

    75. Trial of Members of Societies. Every deliberative assembly, having the right to purify its own body, must therefore have the right to investigate the character of its members. It can require any of them to testify in the case, under pain of expulsion if they refuse.

    When the charge is against the member's character, it is usually referred to a committee of investigation or discipline, or to some standing committee, to report upon. Some societies have standing committees whose duty it is to report cases for discipline whenever any are known to them.

    In either case, the committee investigates the matter and reports to the society. This report need not go into details, but should contain its recommendations as to what action the society should take, and should usually close with resolutions covering the case, so that there is no need for any one to offer any additional resolutions upon it. The ordinary resolutions, where the member is recommended to be expelled, are (1) to fix the time to which the society shall adjourn; and (2) to instruct the clerk to cite the member to appear before the society at this adjourned meeting to show cause why he should not be expelled, upon the following charges which should then be given.

    After charges are preferred against a member, and the assembly has ordered that he be cited to appear for trial, he is theoretically under arrest, and is deprived of all the rights of membership until his case is disposed of. Without his consent no member should be tried at the same meeting at which the charges are preferred, excepting when the charges relate to something done at that meeting.

    The clerk should send the accused a written notice to appear before the society at the time appointed, and should at the same time furnish him with a copy of the charges. A failure to obey the summons is generally cause enough for summary expulsion.

    At the appointed meeting what may be called the trial takes place. Frequently the only evidence required against the member is the report of the committee. After it has been read and any additional evidence offered that the committee may see fit to introduce, the accused should be allowed to make an explanation and introduce witnesses, if he so desires. Either party should be allowed to cross-examine the other's witnesses and introduce rebutting testimony. When the evidence is all in, the accused should retire from the room, and the society deliberate upon the question, and finally act by a vote upon the question of expulsion, or other punishment proposed. No member should be expelled by less than a two-thirds1 vote, a quorum voting. The vote should be by ballot, except by general consent. The members of the committee preferring the charges vote the same as other members.

    In acting upon the case, it must be borne in mind that there is a vast distinction between the evidence necessary to convict in a civil court and that required to convict in an ordinary society or ecclesiastical body. A notorious pickpocket could not even be arrested, much less convicted by a civil court, simply on the ground of being commonly known as a pickpocket; while such evidence would convict and expel him from any ordinary society.

    The moral conviction of the truth of the charge is all that is necessary in an ecclesiastical or other deliberative body to find the accused guilty of the charges.

    If the trial is liable to be long and troublesome, or of a very delicate nature, the member is frequently cited to appear before a committee, instead of the society, for trial. In this case the committee reports to the society the result of its trial of the case, with resolutions covering the punishment which it recommends the society to adopt. When the committee's report is read, the accused should be permitted to make his statement of the case, the committee being allowed to reply. The accused then retires from the room, and the society acts upon the resolutions submitted by the committee. The members of the committee should vote upon the case the same as other members.

    If the accused wishes counsel at his trial, it is usual to allow it, provided the counsel is a member of the society in good standing. Should the counsel be guilty of improper conduct during the trial, the society can refuse to hear him, and can also punish him.


    1. The U.S. Constitution [Art. I, Sec. 5] provides that each House of Congress may "with the concurrence of two-thirds, expel a member."

    It appears to me that an investigative committee must be appointed and JJ has the right to counsel. The committee then reports to the society it's findings, and it's recommendations made. Then the accused is allowed to make his statement. Then and only then is it placed before the society for a vote. Seems to me that this Thursday, March 7th, the NTA board is about to break Parliamentary Law as covered by Robert's Rules of Order concerning JJ's removal from the Presidency. I'm open for interpretation.
  2. EA

    EA Well-Known Member

    Tim, The Board should not act as the Jury. An Org.the size of the NTA should have had a standing trial board in place from day 1. In the best scenario they are elected positions with terms just like any other office. Since they do not have a trial board, a committee needs to be appointed. In the unique situation where the President is the one on trial I would have to say appointing the committee would fall on the VP. In situations where I had a conflict of interest, I opened the meeting and turned it over to the VP until the business was conducted and then I took the meeting over again.

    JJ does have the right to counsel, but the way I read it, that counsel is to be a member in good standing and not an actual lawyer, unless they are one in the same.

  3. SO , by how I read that & understand that ,,,is my membership is in good standing until they tell me what I have done wrong. SO my family membership should be processed.
    Hmm Very good read.
    Hear say has it that these are the 4 or 25% of board that called meeting
    Bill Haynes, Dave Hale, Archie Phillips, and Steve Wolf,

    Maybe we should e mail the board a copy of Roberts rule.!!!
    Gregg R. Ielfield
    PS: the maybe we the members & Board can get ride of the stupid new By -Law
    (NTA Board Passes NEW NTA Policy On Suspension, Expulsion or Other Action.
    NTA policy on suspension, expulsion or other action:)

    Where a member can get kicked out for ANYTHING/ walking & chewing gun if they want to.
  4. antlerman

    antlerman NTA Life Member #0118

    Mike, That is EXACTLY my interpretation. So, Mike Oropallo is both a member and an attorney. And, the appointment of this committee then would fall in the hands of Mitch Webb is the way I'm taking it.

    Gregg, you are not an officer. I think you fall under a different order, but none the less, your membership should be processed until cause is shown. To hold it up based on speculation is I think out of order. Same as with my own. Bylaws do take presidence, but, I'm not sure that new bylaw was done legally. Still investigating that.
  5. Paul C

    Paul C New Member

    Billy Bob Haynes is Head of the Ethics Committee. Complain to him! ;D
  6. Not anymore as he Bill , Resigned from that committee. I have his e mail stating that.
    sent Feb13th 5:38pm est,,,Mr. Pres.
    This is my official notice that I resign as Ethics Chairman of the NTA, effective immediately.
    Bill Haynes

    I think now JJ appoints one ,
    Gregg Ielfield
  7. antlerman

    antlerman NTA Life Member #0118

    But lets also understand something else. Under the new bylaw, Archie Phillips can and should be barred based on the 20 or so eye witnesses that saw him run his tongue down that woman's throat in Pennsylvania then. I will make that my next order of business. ;) There is no longer a statue of limitations on sexual assault. Is Archie ready to face criminal charges? Someone may want to ask him. Eye witness statements are being gathered this coming weekend in PA.
  8. If he gets to appoint one he should appoint you if your eligible
  9. I would do it, But I do think he has already appointed one.
    But remember I talk & chew gun at the same time so I maybe kicked out, LOL
    Tim Just when was the A. Phillips deal in PA, Because I looked on NTA minutes and can not find anything on this SO IMPORTANT subject of a board member doing something so bad. I do see where they Kicked MP out for talking about it , but no mention of the KISS !!!! Hmmmm Just who was the Ethics Chairman then ???
    Gregg Ielfield
  10. antlerman

    antlerman NTA Life Member #0118

    Gregg, it didn't happen at an NTA function. It happened at the Pennsylvania Convention. You won't find it in the NTA minutes. BUT. PA, has it. ;)
  11. Yes I know it was not a NTA event,,, BUT,,, As a NTA board member the NTA should have stepped in and looked into this . He at least should have been kicked off the NTA Board for such an action at a public Taxidermy event. The NTA should have said BYE BYE to him, BUt no they said Bye to MP. Wrong Wrong,,,

    Gregg Ielfield
  12. antlerman

    antlerman NTA Life Member #0118

    Maybe something for the NEW Ethics Chairman to take a look at also.