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Mule deer bottom lip?

Discussion in 'Deer and Gameheads' started by Brian Reinertson, Mar 18, 2013.

  1. Brian Reinertson

    Brian Reinertson Well-Known Member

    1,209
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    Iowa
    I'd like to hear what the more seasoned mule deer guys have to say about this. I was recently docked points in a competition for not showing bottom lip on my mule deer mount.

    The reference I used had no bottom lip showing. Then to solidify my choice, I also used the recent reference article in Breakthrough and those mule deer had no bottom lip showing. So for you MD guys, would you say your reference shows the lip more often than not, or did I just find all the no lip pics to use?
     
  2. Brent W

    Brent W New Member

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    Most mule deer have very little bottom lip showing so your reference was typical. Some judges seem to like a little bottom lip but I seldom show any.
     

  3. Brent W

    Brent W New Member

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    Here a couple more pics. You probably have better reference but....
     

    Attached Files:

  4. Duckslayr

    Duckslayr Active Member

    Most judges want to see "common" characteristics. A real easy way to not get dinged for shrinkage on the lower lip is to not show any, so you will probably get dinged by most judges for not showing any, as it's looked at as a shortcut. Remember, you can find reference for all kinds if exceptions to the "rules". Unless you are doing a specific unusual pose, with reference pics provided, the safest bet is to stick with typical characteristics.
     
  5. Brian Reinertson

    Brian Reinertson Well-Known Member

    1,209
    214
    Iowa
    I guess that's what I'm saying Jared, I thought no lip was the typical characteristic based on all my reference.
     
  6. I was taught that "typical characteristic" of mule deer is no bottom lip showing.
     
  7. FIELD2FOREVER

    FIELD2FOREVER The more I learn, The more I don't Know!!

    Most of the good reference i have actually does show a tiny sliver of lower lip, from strait on its not visible, however the photos i have from under the jaw looking up its clearly visible, maybe a 3/4 inch long by 1/8 piece of lip shows. I was under the impression that no lip showed as well, and I'm sure in many instances it does not. I tuck my commercial deer completely, but for a competition deer I'd try to show that little sliver of lip. Of Course, that's just me.......
     
  8. RoyalOaksRanch

    RoyalOaksRanch Royal Oaks Taxidermy- When Quality Counts...

    I do Hair to hair .... on Muleys and blacktail...

    whitetail judges might dock you but they dont look anything like a whitetail lip... its more a sliver if any and in most circumstances you dont really see it... unlike whitetail that seem to always show their bottom lip..
     
  9. FIELD2FOREVER

    FIELD2FOREVER The more I learn, The more I don't Know!!

    Heres a reference pic I have, its a photo of a photo, so not the greatest but you get the Idea


    Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire
     

    Attached Files:

  10. Duckslayr

    Duckslayr Active Member

    Good example. That's what I see on most pics as well. I guess "typical" depends on who's reference pics you have!:). The bottom line, all the judges I've talked to want to see the lip as above.
     
  11. Matt

    Matt Active Member

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    Did you show the judge that pics you used for reference. I hate when I judge just docks points do to something they feel is "typical". If you had good reference, and did a good job of following it, I would've contested to the ding on points. Most of my reference will show just a hint of the lower lip, but there is also some showing hair to hair.
     
  12. Brian Reinertson

    Brian Reinertson Well-Known Member

    1,209
    214
    Iowa
    Matt, I should have brought my pictures to the show but never even though about it. I was 1 point from the next place up so that would have done it. Next year and I am going to do that and be more confident defending why I mounted the piece the way I did.
     
  13. brigham boy

    brigham boy "if it's horny, mount it"

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    utah
    At our convention this year i mounted 2 mule deer, one with and one without, we have a separate judge for mule deer and game heads, the mule deer judge docked me a point for not showing on the one. I followed the game head judge around and listened to some critiques, one of the guys he was critiquing had a mule deer next to his game head, he ask the game head judge to critique his muley. One of the things he said was,"there ard a few mule deer in this competition showing bottom lip, that is incorrect." My score sheet on the one i did that i tucked in all the way said "need to show bottom lip".

    So it seems either way you can get docked. A picture defending your choice might override his preference.

    Droid Baby!!!

    Shut up and mount
     
  14. Duckslayr

    Duckslayr Active Member

    Most judges decide where they are placing you and make the score sheet reflect that decision. One point away is saying, your almost there, keep going! It's likely that you would have received the same ribbon with the lip showing.
     
  15. TWinter

    TWinter Winter taxidermy

    X2 on the reference for the judge.
     
  16. JEJ

    JEJ Active Member

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    Marble I'm reading to technical/literal here, but those of you saying you normally tuck them hair to hair, isn't that impossible? Wouldn't it be hair to nose pad with no lower lip showing?
     
  17. FIELD2FOREVER

    FIELD2FOREVER The more I learn, The more I don't Know!!

    Nope, hair to hair. Why waste all that time with inner nose detail when you can just tuck it into the lip line lol
     
  18. brigham boy

    brigham boy "if it's horny, mount it"

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    utah
    Re: Re: Mule deer bottom lip?

    lmao

    Droid Baby!!!

    Shut up and mount
     
  19. mount-n-it

    mount-n-it New Member

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    Most Mule Deer show very little, if any bottom lip. If you are from the west and do the shows out here, you will see that 90% of the deer mounts have no lip at all showing. I think it has to do with judges preference and what they know about Mule Deer vs whitetail.
     
  20. No Pictures no Points, thats what I have always been told.