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NTA Board Nominations Another Cluster !!

Discussion in 'The Taxidermy Industry' started by Tri-Ponds Taxidermy, Apr 8, 2013.

  1. That's pretty much the answer I assumed I'd get from you Harry. I'm sure you're too busy to write a short synopsis of recent events (despite the fact that you've had time to make umpteenth other posts). I've read all the drivel on here...I just thought I'd give you a chance to tell us something new that might actually be of substance. I highly doubted you had anything to fill me or anyone in on. It looks like my assumption was right.

    Let's see here, we have a group of guys making claim after claim about all the big things in the works, with zero accountability for any of those claims actually happening because they're "secret," while tens of thousands of dollars are being spent with nothing to show for it...

    ...who needs the NTA when we have the keyboard cowboys!

    The Industry is sure going to be lucky to have you. Especially Harry. He responded to my criticism like a Crain would. You guys better get used to criticism. If you are successful you're not going to enjoy the liberty of operating in an insular environment like you do on here.

    Let's see some accountability. Can you give us a date for when something actually is going to happen? Meaning something that takes place in the real world, and not on the internet.

    Because if I was a betting man I'd wager that in a year from now very little will have changed and Crain will still be the ED and you guys will still be on here complaining and talking about your next "big move."

    I'm looking forward to whatever date/deadline so I can say, "I told you so."

    At some point, if not successful, you guys will need to give this up.
  2. Bill Yox

    Bill Yox Well-Known Member

    Matt, perhaps your very outspoken and well documented history of being sarcastic yourself on many topics pertaining to the NTA changes has something to do with his comments to you? These guys have worked hard, they were there, and theyre spending time to make this thing right, and then, after you continually discredit them and laugh at their actions, you ask for proof? Why WOULD they give you that time? Youve made up your mind, youve stated your point countless times. Move on. Im sure none of them expect you to sign up once the NTA gets straightened out anyway...

  3. michael p.

    michael p. Getting better with age :)

    I gave Matt Jones a date, and he replies 'can somebody give me a date'.

    You're so infatuated with Harry that you are blinded.
  4. Nancy C

    Nancy C Well-Known Member

    Matt, you don't get it. You haven't been around long enough to have witnessed the deterioration of the NTA since the Crains took it hostage, and it appears that you're too lazy to bother finding out about it through research - even though there is plenty of info right here on TaxiNet.
    Do you think that someone should do the work FOR you? If so, you are going to be disappointed.
    Do you think that it will help a legal case to put all evidence out for the public to see? Especially when dealing with someone who apparently has no qualms about tampering with the evidence in their possession?

    The bottom line in this mess is pretty simple:
    You are cheering for the wrong side.
    The question is: Why?
  5. James Parrish

    James Parrish Tundra Swan...Its What's For Dinner!

    I don't really see where Harry owes anyone anything in the way of answers. After all, he is spending his OWN money to pursue making changes to benefit everyone. Like he said, if you had chipped in some cash or your time, then I could see you demanding to know what is going on and what their next move is. Initially (when this all started a couple yrs ago), I thought the same as you...that Harry and Fred were grandstanding with the "you'll find out soon enough stuff". After having kept up with all the posts lately regarding the topic I know what is going on but I don't know the specific course of action. I really don't think that the course is as important as the desired outcome...that is to bring the NTA back to its place as the preeminent national organization promoting our industry. That may or may not happen and no one is forcing anyone to get on board. We do have the UTA and it is a great organization that is focused (at least from what I have seen) on the education side of things. We need the NTA to be strong, especially with its connections to other groups with which taxidermists share mutual interests, to promote our industry. That includes promoting conservation and acting on legislation that has an impact on hunting, fishing, and taxidermy as well as laws that regulate small business (like Obamacare, IRS rule changes, etc).

    I know it is aggravating to see post after post saying "wait and see". I will tell you that I trust the major players in these efforts and I believe they will effect change within the NTA.
  6. huntin_justin

    huntin_justin Active Member

    Matt if you have no interest in the NTA or seeing it fixed, why even post. There are pages and pages of posts on here explaining what is going on. Your negative posts about these folks is not gonna make them turn around and say "he's right I should just give up". There are alot of us following very closely and are proud and supportive of the work they are doing. The give up attitude that you are promoting in your comments never got anyone anywhere. Could you imagine if the NRA said that fighting the president and congress over gun issues is too tough and just gave up fighting for what they believe. Just sit back and wait. If you are concerned at all, sign a petition and mail it to Greg. What could it hurt? Let these guys continue to fight to get the answers that we all want to know.
  7. antlerman

    antlerman NTA Life Member #0118

    I can tell you this much....

    we are on a destroy as needed only path. No sense in nuking the whole thing if it can be avoided. That is our goal and we have a team working to do it piece meal style. Michael has posted a NUKE date. If by that date things have not been rectified, the NTA will be destroyed, but why destroy if a lesser amount of damage can be orchestrated and the NTA can be saved to some capacity? This has been carefully thought out and nothing is not going to change our game plan.
  8. June 15th it is, thank you.

    I've done the research and read the other threads that are on here. When I asked to be filled in I was asking for something of more substance because there isn't much in all the threads that I've read.

    My concern is this, what are you guys trying to accomplish? Because from an outsider-looking-in perspective I see a couple different ways to view what you're doing.

    1. You are concerned about having a well run national organization to both honor expertise in the industry and to represent us.

    2. You're trying to clean up a corrupt organization lead by a tyrannical, allegedly criminal executive director.

    Some of you think you're doing both. There's also the possibility you're goal is neither and that this is solely based on ego and it's about winning a fight by taking down a guy that's pizzed you off.

    The reason why I care is if the ultimate goal is #1, then I think you are going about it horribly wrong. Sometimes the best way to fight tyranny and corruption is to move on and give people a better option than what they have. I think we all agree that it was a pretty good idea for our founding fathers to move on and start a new country than to stick around to expend their finite resources fighting the tyranny and corruption in their old country. Many times it's easier to start fresh than it is to clean up. It's a lot easier to gain new goodwill than it is to earn it back.

    You guys have finite resources. It's sad to see you waste them on a lost cause. If you would have spent the hours and money starting a new national organization or building up another organization like the UTA instead of trying to bring down the Crains you'd be infinitely farther ahead in accomplishing goal #1.

    I mean $33K??? Are you kidding me? Think of what that would have of done for the UTA or starting the New NTA? What a waste. The best way to get back the NTA would have been through a war of attrition. If the Crain's are in it for the money, take their money...which is the membership. You all know the numbers for the declining membership. It would have been so easy to crush the current NTA by working on a better alternative to them and then simply incorporate them in a few years when they're down to a couple hundred members and are holding their shows at a legion hall.

    You guys chose the wrong game plan. You're going to wind up with nothing or at best next to nothing if you are successful which is very sad.

    Good luck.
  9. michael p.

    michael p. Getting better with age :)

    Matt, you're probably 110% right...... unfortunately sometimes the principle of a matter runs into unnessacary expenses. Bur that's just the way it is, it's the principle.
  10. Harry Whitehead

    Harry Whitehead I love to hunt Buffalos!!!!!

    Matt, You're NOT 110% right. It's unfortunate that you feel the way that you do even though it really doesn't matter to me whether you understand OR agree with what we are doing. You have no idea what we are doing or have done yet you say we are going about it the wrong way. Additionally, when someone doesn't understand a situation or the players involved then they want to say EGO is the driving force. YOU ARE 110% WRONG.
    As far as the UTA goes I know the folks that started it, the folks running it, and I know why they are doing both. I'm not putting my resources into the UTA for a reason and since you're asking here is why. I, meaning Fred and I, don't want our actions to look like we are taking down the NTA for the sole purpose of elevating the UTA. If you don't understand that then it's your problem, not mine.
    So, having said all of that, if you don't like what we are doing that's your choice. If you want to laugh and criticize us for what we are spending that's your choice. If you don't like the fact that we are not going to support the UTA until this mess with the NTA is cleared up then that's your choice. I respect that. Now it's your turn to respect what MY choices are.
  11. Bob Mead

    Bob Mead Mead Taxidermy Studio, LLC

    I'm not so sure the scale of tyranny in the NTA rises to the level of that of 16th Century England. That's a poor comparison at best. As Antlerman indicated, some of the facets of the current NTA may be salvageable...whereas tyrannical English rule was beyond repair. I agree with his assessment.

    Since we are all giving opinions here, my opinion is that your comments are not constructive, helpful, or very well thought out at all. But everybody is entitled to their opinion, so I guess we'll see if your soothsaying abilities are worthy of consideration in the future...
  12. I understand the principle part and I hope you guys succeed. I hope you get Crain, I really do...but I don't think you will. Even a coup needs critics. Good luck.
  13. michael p.

    michael p. Getting better with age :)

    I don't need a critic, I'm my own worse one!! LOL But seriously, you are right, it does need critics because sometimes you can learn from that.

    The one thing you may be right on is the 'getting Crain'. I don't want Greg Crain (but a hell of a lot of others do, he's done some awful things to damn good people) Thr only getting I want got is for him to get out!

    I could focus on the lies and crap him and his wife have spread about me, but I refuse to. I would be no better than them if it was truly personal. This is about an association, an association that was filled with this industrys cream of the crop, only to be gutted by a selfish, self serving group.

    If we win, we win..... if we lose we move on. June 15th will be the date by when you will know what action I take..... I will promise you that.
  14. Harry Whitehead

    Harry Whitehead I love to hunt Buffalos!!!!!

    So as not to cloud the issue, nobody is "out to get" anybody. We are dealing with the ED of a non Profit organization and that ED just so happens to be Greg Crain. That's it, that's all. Additionally Matt, criticism spawns animosity especially uneducated criticism so therefore the rub with you. You demand answers to questions without ANY prior support to the cause that we have sacrificed and fought for. Sorry, maybe in kindergarten but not with adults and certainly not with the amount of time and money that has been "invested". I'm not being hateful or disrespectful but merely stating facts. Also nobody on our "team" has an EGO in this matter. Nobody is bragging about the time and money spent to get to the bottom of this situation. I'm sorry if you think so but if you do, you're wrong. The timeline that Michael has given you is not my timeline, or Fred's. I'm not working on your clock and really, neither should Mike. We have the best people in the industry fighting this fight and we will win. Make no mistake, we will win.
  15. michael p.

    michael p. Getting better with age :)

    Harry, June 15th is my personal time clock, that is the day I should know where and what state I should fly to make my deposition. June 1st is my deadline and i'm not hiding it from anybody. If changes are not made by then, you will then see my buttons pushed.

    I've been a patient man for 3 years........ that's MY deadline. Everybody, especially the employee can take that to the band and it will not be 8 days late.
  16. The AG & IRS are on track but have no time line. We will file our papers when all ducks are in a row.
    Thank you all for signing the petitions and we will keep you informed.
    Gregg I
  17. Harry Whitehead

    Harry Whitehead I love to hunt Buffalos!!!!!

    That's cool Mike. You and I are on the same page and you know it. I'm behind you 100%. I just get a little irritated when someone that hasn't done anything but criticize wants results at the drop of a hat. Does everyone really think that "I" have dragged this out that long just so it costs Fred and I MORE money??? I don't think so....
  18. michael p.

    michael p. Getting better with age :)

    Oh I agree 100% Harry, the funniest thing though is that some people think this is a true 'team'.

    Harry and I have talked probably 3 times in 6 months, I have NEVER talked to Elmer until 2 weeks ago, I had to ask Greg I. For his number today..... the beautiful thing, it's many separate entities who come to the EXACT same conclusion even though we never communicate..... come to think of it, it is a team, a team that see's the truth.
  19. Your right on MP, & Harry,,,,

    On another note , the petitions can be signed by any and all your customers !!!!!!!!
    [size=24pt]Sportmen are listed as they can join, KEEP getting them signed.

    Petiton is attached below..

    Gregg I

    Attached Files:



    Here is the list of nominee's that timely allegedly filed prior to March 1, 2013. Anybody on any other list, other than the one's below and there is something screwy going on. They would have to have been added after the deadline, IMHO.

    John Janelli
    Tinker Johnson
    Mitch Webb
    Bill Haynes
    Jerry Adams
    Barbara Duvall
    Jim Ellis
    Randy Jordan
    Carol Janelli
    Tommy Armstrong
    John Creager
    Frankie Thompson
    Wesley Touchstone
    Fred Vanderburgh
    Rebecca Wilcher
    Lori Wolk

    Apparently some of the above didn't qualify, or didn't accept the nomination. :eek: since they don't appear on the first post's list in this thread, as being on the ballot for 2013 .

    Oh [email protected]@kie, I see one person on the list who allowed their membership to lapse 8 days ;D ;D ;D Wonder when he is going to petition the Board as per the Bylaws for a reinstatement vote from the Board to get back into the NTA ;D ;D ;D Just like Michael P had too! ;)

    Fair is Fair ;) and we wouldn't want the NTA to develop a reputation of not playing fair, would we Mr. and Mrs. Crain... ;D ;D ;D