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Antler set

Discussion in 'Deer and Gameheads' started by bbt17, May 1, 2013.

  1. antlerman

    antlerman NTA Life Member #0118

    Damnit. I have friends on both sides of this debate, but for example, I mount several replica racks a year with whatever big nice cape I can buy. Guess what.....no measurements. African stuff.....again no measurements. Racks......there is a perspective that one can find by viewing the skull cap and pedical angles. Some racks follow the nose bridge, some don't. I hate to add fuel here, but a neck swell measurement after tanning is all I take or need NOW. However that word NOW comes from 20 years of experience and measuring everything to include the bot worms in a deers nose. When viewing others work, I often times see ear butt location problems much more than rack location problems which raises the question How far is it from the carnuncle to the ear canal? 4 1/4 to 4 1/2 will hit just about every deer out there. But since I KNOW this I don't still measure every one of them. How far is it from one side of the skull to the other?? There are tons of measurements we can and should take to LEARN from, but once learned, why keep measuring?? I know taxidermist who can eyeball a skin, alter the form and the skin fit like a glove without ever taking a single measurement. Some call it a gift. I suppose it is, but experience makes the job at hand elementry my dear Watson. Knowing the animal is the key, not the number of hash marks on a measuring device. Shapes and contours changes everything related to straight line measurements.
  2. I just may be that person that wings it and always have. I do it a lot in my flooring work as well, eyeing most cuts without a tape. I think it is an individual thing, like being able to read reference, some can and some can't. Just my take on it, but then again I do a lot of things that most will say isn't the best way. I have never used a ear liner, bondo for me. I do not tuck my eyes, tan my own stuff including bears and "some" african, etc. I'm far from being a vet I would say as well, 6 years, still learning and is why I don't give lots of advise on here unless asked.

    Had this typed and you beat me Tim, kind of what I was saying. ;)

  3. Kyle Lakey

    Kyle Lakey Active Member

    I gave him a general way of setting it so thats not what I'm argueing or saying he shouldn't impliment it. I'm argueing Ts statement that it is uneccessary to EVER measure a deer eye to burr or beam to nose. As all of you have stated you use too take measurements so tell me how it wouldn't be benefitial to begginers to take measurements to help set racks or other things just because a veteran can tell them a commonality measurement?? I don't get it.

    So basically you are telling them to set every rack at a 1 1/2 to 1 3/4 roughly then test fit when they have the skin thawd. What happens when he pulls the deer out and it measures 1 1/16 or 1/8 like I just did today mounting a deer. They then have to take it apart and reset the rack because you are going to have tension on that skin and eye if you mount it as is. All this would cost time in the mounting process. And how would it be spending extra hours and hours taking measurements? The amount of time it takes you to measure only saves you (exspecially begginers) 100 times more time when it comes to setting the rack and test fitting to make sure its going to work? If you measure cut and set the rack it is going to work with the skin not should work most of the time.

    Also tell me how it wouldn't save any TIME to even the oldest of veterans to take 20 secs to write down a couple simple measurements on each one you can and be able to preset all your racks and shape the skull plate and even preset your ear liners and sculpt butts the night before without ever touching the tanned skin until you are ready to mount it and just role?

    I as the rest of you with alot of experience don't need to take measurements to get a good mount and rack set, I never argued against that. I take mine now soley to give me the ability to set my rack exaclty where it was ahead of time in large batches and prevent me from having to take the time to test fit it and prevent the suprises of any abnormal or on the edge of the measurement spectrum deer that would give me troubles and cost me time

    Thing is you can tell a begginer all the info you can on how to mount a deer or show them an entire video of it but until they actually put their hands on it and learn how to measure, read, and apply all the commonalities our commonality info from experience is maybe half as useful as it could be. No different than sculpting the eyes or ear butts. You can explain and show them everything they need to know but unless they study reference and practice appllying it to their work with their own hands it will only do them so much good.

    BTW this is all a friendly debate about begginers learning and we aren't showing any disrepect towards any of you proven taxidermist because we all respect you Steve and the others in your knowledge and abilities.

    Obviously everyone has a way that they have developed to work for them and produce a quality mount I just think the begginers need to reinforce and learn the ideas that we may give them in comminalities. I know I'm still learning every year but just because I learn something from a veteran doesn't mean I'm not going to go home and check it out for myself to help myself understand what I was told better.
  4. Steven Klee

    Steven Klee Steven Klee Studios

    3 bears quote: The commonality you speak of is often true but there are times when it isn't, nothing in nature is always consistant.

    What you are speaking of are called anomolies and happen both with and without measurements. They are also called anomolies because of their very low rate of occurance. Like not one since I started eyeballing this measurement over 9 years ago.

    I also did not know throwing in my 2 cents meant I thought it was gospel. Didn't mean to come across that way. So I'll be a little clearer.

    This is the SECOND time I'll say this so it is not mis conscrewed again. I expressed when I started, this is how I do it. Never once said anyone else had to do it, until someone else tries it, they got no business knockin' it.
  5. Steven Klee

    Steven Klee Steven Klee Studios

    Thanks antlerman for saying so well what evidently I coudn't. ;)
  6. Riverland

    Riverland New Member

    Gotta do it. Do I take these measurements with a caliper,tape measure or a string. And do they vary from tool to tool if I forget what I used the first time? I seem to forget a lot of things these days.
  7. bbt17

    bbt17 New Member

    T3 back to my original post is the measurement taken from the center or the back of the eye orbit to burr ? Thanks
  8. Riverland

    Riverland New Member

    Back of the eye to the burr. As long as you are consistant in where you take it and incorporate it back into your form makes know difference. It's easier to just have skull with horns there as a model to set your horns on a form.
  9. michael p.

    michael p. Getting better with age :)

    I just wing it!
  10. 3bears

    3bears Well-Known Member

    Steven, I got what you were saying, that it is the way you do it after years of experience. I to have had to "wing it" using commonalities that I have found after years of measuring, but when available, I prefer to have measurements. It can and does work no doubt about it on my part. I just don't agree with telling a relatively new person to do it that way.We see it all the time on here racks tipped too far back or forward, or too high. I don't believe you were the first to suggest that it was possible. I am not trying to discredit any of the experienced folks here, so please don't take it that way.
  11. Mr.T

    Mr.T Active Member

    Hhhmmm... read it again.
  12. Kyle Lakey

    Kyle Lakey Active Member

    What Doug said and thanks for pointing out its easier to have the skull there as a model. Same thing as having that eye socket still attached to your skull plate when you cut it. That way you can use this as a reference and take your measurement on the form and translate that to your skull plate to make your cut. Like we've beaten to death already obviously you don't have that available with this particular mount so you have to use basic rules and test fitting skin but when you have more in the future you will be able to look at the deer with the entire skull after you skin it and be able to understand what these distances and angle are that we are talking about. You don't have to take any of these measurements but try it a couple times next time you skin a few out and mount the horns it will help your get a better idea of these commonalities and abnormalities and eventually you will do it enough you won't need to take the measurements if you don't want to and get the same results. Good luck with the mount you'll get it.
  13. Kyle Lakey

    Kyle Lakey Active Member

    You also said this first ;)
  14. Mr.T

    Mr.T Active Member

    I also said this, that you ignored out of your stubbornness. " If you get an occasional odd non typical, you may want a measurement or two, ". Now that other more respected taxinet members have voiced the very same things I have said, doesn't make me the bad guy here, I was simply the first to BBQ your sacred cow.
  15. 3bears

    3bears Well-Known Member

    well dang it low t venison was on the bbq menu not beef. ;) I do have to ask, would a greenhorn have a good chance of getting the set right repetedly, without measurements?
  16. Mr.T

    Mr.T Active Member

    That depends on if he or she can chew gum and walk at the same time. You and a few others assume that every newbie can read a tape measure and follow instructions, when the content of some of the questions posted by greenhorns show that elevator belts can and do slip.
    For starting out, a greenhorn should take notes on everything. But if they stick around mounting things long enough, they will most likely, eventually, leave the ruler on the bench if they got the knack down. But we see evidence that some never step away from their beginner habits, which isn't a bad thing.
  17. 3bears

    3bears Well-Known Member

  18. Mr.T

    Mr.T Active Member

    1994,, Forrest Gump: That's all I have to say about that.