Another way to learn this?

Sorry I can't give you an answer to that, as that is the same question I have for myself. I have a large male African lion I will be articulating before too long. Hopefully I can answer that question for myself by summers end. As I get closer to the day of actually trying to articulate it I am feeling a bit anxious about it. Don't know if that is normal for most trying to do their first articulation. I know if I can get this first one under my belt I am sure I will be excited to jump into the next one, I hope. Maybe some others can share their feelings and experiences in doing full articulations. What is it in particular that seems to be giving you a problem that you don't feel you are gaining much progress. I too have two of the Lee Post manuals. I am excited at the same time a little nervous about it, don't want to ruin such a splendid, rare piece. What types of animals have you tried doing and what was the most difficult part of each. This is for anyone else to answer to also on their pieces.

 

As far as getting the backbone right and some of the other things in the right position I have been looking at the pictures Lee has posted on his website. There is one of an African lion that I printed off for reference, assuming it is correct. Maybe he has some of the animals you are doing on there for reference. Or else doing a google search can find you more reference material. I am sure you already have done this though. Yeah, it would be cool to be working with someone who is more professional but out in the sticks where I am its just me and the animals around. Learn by trial and error I guess. Wish you well in finding some answers or help.

 

I am also about to do a full lion skeleton and feel intimidated by the process.

I have done a lot of small animal mounts mostly working with reptiles thanks to my connections in the exotics trade. After rebuilding a skull from dozens of tiny shards, the carpals, tarsals and toes can still be a big pain. If you were on the east coast, I would be happy to walk you through the build in person but Utah is a bit of a drive for me.

I do have some articulated limbs up for grabs if you want them. Despite the change in scale, domestic cats can be a great reference for the big ones. Use a non reactant clay to hold the bones in place and then glue them if that helps. I use miliput putty for a lot of those pesky toe and carpal joints. Finding an appropriate wire gauge is really up in the air. find something you can work with and seems strong enough for the spot in question. I tend to get fancy with modular mounts that have nesting hex pieces of tube so the limbs can slip on and off for storage. I am a poor student and have extremely limited and ever changing space to keep this stuff so storage is a big factor for me.

If you really need good references, the best thing you can do (if there are no good museums or friendly experts in the area) is to find an example animal that is related and do a delicate dissection. Slowly scrape a limb clean then meticulously document the bones as you find them or get a beetle chamber to clean them and check it out that way. I use a marker to indicate the number and orientation and go from there. After a good deconstruction and reconstruction you will be answering all of our questions on the subject.

If you or anyone else has any questions or concerns, feel free to PM me and I will do my best to solve the problem. If anyone is in the Philly or NYC areas, I am also happy to do live demos and help in person.

Post pics as you go and especially when you are done.

Hope I helped.

 

What I do is, separate all the legs in dif bags while macerating and degreasing. This helps a ton with the metacarpals and toes. This will make a bit less of a issue, bones will only go to together one correct way, like a puzzle with many like pieces, only one piece for that spot will fit 100% correctly. Images and references will be ur best friend here. As far as the spine, run a wire that won't rust through the spine before its completely macerated or with beetles before they get it all cleaned, fishing line will also work. The tail however will still be a issue but u just have to line them up large to small. Proper labling ahead of time, before its all separated can save u tons of headaches and time. My best advise to u, start big, the larger the skeleton, the easier it is to get the bones in the right places.
If u want some feet to experiment on, I have hundreds of bobcat, coyote, and raccoon feet (front and back) raw with no fur or claws. I usually use them for bones for necklaces, but I could send u a few, just pay shipping.

 

I am by no means a professional, but here are my thoughts on the subject: I wouldn't try a full african lion untill I had a few 'less precious' species under my belt (i.e. species that are easily accessible, or don't hold much value should something go wrong). I agree on the part, bigger is easier, but that only applies to articulating the carpal/tarsal bones and toes... when you are looking at an entire skeleton, there are a few other issues that arise when the size of the species is increasing, meanly the support of the whole skeleton. Animals the size of a beaver, otter, or fox, are the best size for practicing.

On the size of the different wires, etc, you just have to see what is available and what works for you. In most cases 3 different sizes go a long way. I only use wire for the legs and ribs, for the spine I use threaded rods, bend in shape (I did a post a while back on articulating an otter, where the process is explained in more detail.

It is indeed the best option to bag each leg individually while cleaning, but should you not have had that luxury, I find the best way to get started is to sort everything left and right... left and right are just mirrored pieces of bone, and even if you don't know the name of it, or don't yet know where is should go, you will at least have some sort of starting point. In addition, once you figured out where that bone should go, you already have the other side, which goes at exactly the same place of course, but in a mirrored way.

In my experience, what works well is looking at the articulating surfaces. Especially for the carpal and tarsal bones, there are very tight articulations, and the articulating surfaces match very well, thus making a 'perfect fit'. That is another way of checking whether or not the bone is in the right place.

If you want, I can try to walk you through the ankle of the beaver for instance on Skype or something, send me a PM if you're interested. Has worked for some people in the past, so we can give it a try.

If there are any questions, let me know and I can see what I can do...

Walter

 

Bone-o I think this is a great thread! I am in the process of cleaning a turkey skeleton right now. The cleaner it gets the more bones I find and the more nervous I get about starting the articulation! I have been reading and re-reading some of the tutorials on here! The Macaw tutorial by wbd has helped immensely! I have been simultaneously maserating/dissecting and re-reading tutorials. Every time I read them they make a little more sense. I have tried to make this process idiot proof for myself. I've separated all the important components into their own labeled jars. (Right wing, Left wing, etc.) I have threaded the tail and the vertebrae with floss to keep them in line. I am most nervous about the rib cage... I also took pictures throughout the process with measurements so that when I was ready to reconstruct, say the rib cage I had measurements and photographs of my own to go off of along with any I found online.

So do your home work first to make the job easier.
Document with pictures.
Then, you need reference. Go online, if you haven't already and find reference of both skeleton and the actual animal in it's natural position.
Then, practice makes perfect. That is why I am starting with a turkey before I graduate to something cooler.

Good luck! My fingers are crossed for you. I am a few weeks away from decreasing and then I will be in the same boat!

 

I would just encourage you to experiment and post photos with questions and you'll get lots of advice. That's what I'm doing. I cleaned a porcupine a nephew shot and glued it all together and learned a lot. Parts kept falling off and I knew there was a better method than just glue. I looked at lots of photos and saw all the wiring used by others and bought a cheap Dremel, some bits and some wire. My fox feet came out awesome. I post photos and people respond with comments, concerns and corrections.

I'm so glad I took Boneman's advice and tackled the feet first. That was tough, but worth it and now everything else seems really easy. I'm actually looking forward to doing some feet in the future because I think I can assemble them even better. It's addicting.

I find if I need some downtime to relax, I turn on a good audio book on computer, put on my magnifier glasses, turn on bright drafting lamp and fire up the Dremel, gather images, do google searches and post photos to this site. Makes for an enjoyable evening.

So just experiment. Most mistakes can be re-glued, re-drilled, re-positioned.

 

Don't give up Bone-o! Since I've seen your forum posts, it seems you are asking all the right questions! Your threads are usually really helpful! But don't expect to be an expert right from the start. You have to start somewhere and with every mistake comes a learning opportunity. Don't put the pressure on yourself to be perfect right off the bat. I am getting ready to do my first skeleton here shortly. I have zero expectations for myself. Of course I want it to be perfect but I think that is unrealistic for me and for you at this point!

My best recommendation would be to get a cheap skeleton. A chicken or something that is a dime a dozen, something you wont care about screwing up. Then just have fun.Who cares if it isn't anatomically correct! You don't have to show anyone if it doesn't come out great! Or post pictures along the way so that we can help you!

I should post my very first taxidermy project on here. OMFG, it's awful! I did a dry preserve of a 3 day old puppy. When I set the pup in place it looked great, once it dried it turned into a horrifying frankin-pup. I think I will post pics in the beginner taxidermy section later. Keep an eye out for it, its awful! It now lives in my desk drawer. But that's how you learn. I learned from my mistakes...although I will be sticking to bones for the time being! So anyway, I hate to see someone with so much passion just throw their hands in the air and give up. Keep at it!