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World show fish challenge?

Discussion in 'Fish Taxidermy' started by [email protected], May 13, 2013.

  1. Paul, I noticed you opted not to put the entire rule in your original post, you just put part of it, between 6 1/2 and 8 inches in length! I think you should work on getting the rule changed to be more exact and not so vague. According to the rule as stated, all the fish entered fit the size requirement. The statement of slightly smaller or larger allows for way too much interpretation of the rule. The part of asking you to follow the restrictions as closely as possible is a joke. You don't ASK a competitor to follow the restrictions as closely as possible, you tell them what the restrictions are and if not followed a disqualification will be the result.
     
  2. George

    George The older I get, the better I was.

    Fishheads never seem to surprise me, HOWEVER, aside from Doug and Cecil being homers, I never saw a thing that said anything bad about Laverne (whomever the gentleman is and how good his work was). What I DO see was a remark similar to what Rick Carter just posted under another category.

    JUSTFISH, I don't see why Paul had to post the rule verbatim. I'm not a fishhead and I don't compete, but what he DID write said a lot. What YOU wrote only confuses the issue. Your comments say the mount won't be "disqualified" but says nothing about whether it should be penalized when compared with the work of those who stuck to the trueist letter of the competition rules.

    And for you guys who believe in fairytales and want to beat up on Randy, PLEASE don't try and tell me that crap doesn't happen ALL THE TIME AT COMPETITIONS. The last WTC I went to, I was in the parking lot helping Ken Walker get his Irish elk out of the trailer when THREE INDIVIDUALS were talking about how it was someone's "turn" to win Best in the World. Well, IMO, the piece sucked when compared to the others it was competing against. GUESS WHAT WON??? And two of those individuals ended up being judges at the show.

    Now PERHAPS the mount was better technically and PERHAPS it did deserve Best in the World title, but for me to have heard those comments 2 days prior to actual judging says one helluva lot about conversations that take place outside that competition room. Randy is just airing dirty laundry some of you are uncomfortable in reading.
     

  3. Pescado

    Pescado Biggest in 2011

    According to the rule as stated, all the fish entered fit the size requirement. ( from just fish above)

    Did you measure them just fish?

    Mine was 8" as mounted. It was by far the smallest. The winner was over 9" and probably closer to ten than eight. I guess no one had a ruler.

    How about this:

    c. The fish should be mounted for a full 360-degree inspection. (excerpt from rules)

    No reading comprehension amongst the judges or the competitors? What is it about full 360 inspection that I don't understand. Still scratching my head.
     
  4. Ron Kelly

    Ron Kelly Active Member

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    After reading Randy's post, I agree there is nothing to do about it and he should move on. However, I love you Dan, and you are one of the best, BUT, this has happened to me TWICE, in the past. Both my fish scored almost PERFECT scores (99) and (98) at other shows. I decided to take the replicas to the Big Show and was told the fish were the HIGHEST scoring replicas that year, BUT, no 1st place or Best in World was given. Twice in 2 different times. Larry himself asked me WHAT the fish scored as HE could not find anything wrong with it. When I told him that one of the judges didn't like my base so he made a slash thru the score and changed it to a lesser score. And that is the truth. Brian, you should know that sometimes it is political and that kind of stuff happens. As a past judge, I strived to NOT let opinion get in the way as much as possible. BUT, it happens and that won't change. My point is that if there is a "Standout" piece, it should be considered to win. I only say this because there have been too many years that NO "Best in World" has been given. Ask Kenneth B. A" NEAR PERFECT" BASS that loses by 1/2 point, ACCORDING TO THE JUDGES with NO " Best in World" given this year in that category also. If this was the "OBVIOUS "winner. Why couldn't the judges agree on a 1/2 point difference? Give me a break!
     
  5. Pescado

    Pescado Biggest in 2011

    Angle is close on photo, close enough for comparison to the one supplied for the challenge.
     

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  6. kbauman

    kbauman Active Member

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    OK
    Try 1/3 of a point, Ron. (90, 90, 89)
     
  7. Paul, You complain about the size rule but because the way it is stated no one can be penalized from bending that rule. CHANGE THE RULE. Why would you ask If I measured them? There was no need to measure them because of the wording of the guide lines.
    As far as the 360 degree, I'm at a loss too.

    George
    This is copied from the guide lines of the challenge. I did not write it so I'm not to blame for the confusion. Like I said change the rule. George, did you read my entire post or do you not understand the English language?
     
  8. Ron Kelly

    Ron Kelly Active Member

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    Sorry Kenneth. My mistake. Probably the same judge that judged mine. Yep, he was one of the judges! I feel for you. It is one of the BEST bass I have seen.
     
  9. Perca

    Perca Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  10. Cole

    Cole Amateur Taxidermist

    [​IMG]

    Sending scoresheets back to Larry for inspection? Give me a break, you lost.
     
  11. steelheaderPNW

    steelheaderPNW No school like the Oldschool

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    Pescado,

    Maybe you shouldve been more concerned with accurately rebuilding the top of the head, and rebuilding your shrunken fins instead of how big your competitors fish are.

    How about them nostrils.... im not sure that a pin hole in a nostril is quite up to snuff to win something like that.

    Sometimes a one sided fish is better than a poorly finished 2 sided one.... sad, but thats the world we live in.

    Its all a game boys. Learn how to play it, or stop standing in line.

    And Mr. Bauman a 1/3 of a point is a bit cheap, I will fully agree to that.
     
  12. Brian W

    Brian W Well-Known Member

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    Paul.....awesome job on your gill. Some people are so jealous, they have to try and find something wrong..... ::)
     
  13. Pescado

    Pescado Biggest in 2011

    I say to you put up or shut up. Maybe if you had a horse in the race, but you didn't. Bluegills have very meaty fins don't they. Here's a little closer shot. Not just pin holes pinhead. I love monday morning armchair quaterbacks.
     

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  14. Cole

    Cole Amateur Taxidermist

    I'm not sure he's jealous. I didn't have a horse in the race either, and I think the finish work is a bit lacking. It's easy to overlook something in your own mount yet find fault in someone else's. Paul, perhaps your gill wasn't as good as you thought, perhaps it was. The judges disagreed with you and that is all that matters. When we enter a competition we know going in we are getting an opinion, and we might not agree with it. We've all been there, hell the highest scoring pc. I've ever entered in a show scored a 95 in masters, and that same pc. also scored a 70 at a smaller state show. I got my critique, learned from it, and moved on. After reading this thread I should have posted pics on here, picked up a couple atta boys and mailed my scoresheet to the state's president at the time.

    You all look like sore losers.
     
  15. 1fish2fish

    1fish2fish Well-Known Member

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    In fact I posted the rule George, for clarification. While 6.5-8" gills are fairly plentiful by me, the swag in size limit is probably meant to increase the opportunity to participate in the world championship event.

    I'd perhaps be more sympathetic to someone complaining other competitors had an unfair advantage by entering 1-2" larger gills, if 1. the rules didn't allow it and 2. that competitor's entry wasn't also 1-2" larger than a fish that would have fallen within the suggested length. In other words, if Paul entered a 6.5" fish instead of an 8" fish, I could see a bit more where he's coming from.

    There is a big difference in time spent on a mount between 1 side finished vs 2 as we all know. I don't know what went down, and if there was disparity among the entries, it would be a shame if it wasn't judged as per the rules.

    I still think this event has the makings of a killer world title contest. If there were issues with administration of rules, I'm sure that is going to be corrected. I don't know any reason it should be "doomed."

    Best, Scott
     
  16. Brian W

    Brian W Well-Known Member

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    Cole,
    I agree with the ambiguity that does exist with judging and maybe Steelheader wasnt jealous then, just being difficult. Paul never asked for a critique, he was just posting per a couple on here's request to see the fish. Steelheader took it upon himself to give his unwanted critique and maybe try to shed a hint of discredit to Paul.
    Paul is an excellent taxidermist and a friend of mine. There was no logical reason to bring up what Steeheader did other than to start something. I wouldnt accept him saying that on the net, over the phone or in person. Now, if Paul posted his fish and said, "Hey, here's my entry, what do you guys think"......that's a different animal.
     
  17. Pescado

    Pescado Biggest in 2011

    The judges did not judge correctly period. Both said they never read the rules , period. I never said Lavern's fish wasn't better. You guys can babble all you want about opinions and what not, still does not change the fact on how this was judged. The whole point of the challenge was to take opinions out of the equation. Was not to be judged at the masters level either. Every aspect was to be looked at, you guys simply do not get it. If it had three black spots below the pec fin and four that could be seen through the fin, well they should be there. If the fish was missing a spiny dorsal point, well you better make sure you match that. It is obvious that the whole point of the challenge went right over so many heads it's kind of scary. 25 years of competing and I have always taken the good with the bad. I could really care less, except for the fact that this had specific guidelines and rules for competitors and judges to follow. Black and white, no interpitation, period. Too bad.

    And PNW I will put my fins against yours any day of the week, real or cast.
     
  18. rd@nt

    [email protected] New Member

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    The bass should be a first . It was the best I ever Seen and Should get the world title Also was the best representation there for a L bass and I have judged a lot of L bass over the years. Also Send your score sheets to the committee of the world show. I sent mine My great lakes sturgeon Was the best repro there there highest scoring repro. I can never do one better and will never compete there again unless something changes. This is not the first time this happened to me at shows. But I must say something or nothing will change for future shows. Randy Desormeau
     
  19. 1fish2fish

    1fish2fish Well-Known Member

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    I get that you are complaining about the administration of rules Paul, and that's fair, and I was about to point that out on your behalf, but when you brought the issue up in a post that just requested pics of the entries, folks are reading "ego". I'm sure you addressed your complaints with the judges, so making it public on the forum is perhaps not the most respectful thing to the winner, and only serves to taint the public image of an event you seem to like, in my opinion. Hopefully all this banter will only serve to make the event better in the future. I'd like to see you continue to enter it, and do think your fish is very nice indeed.
    Best, Scott
     
  20. Cole

    Cole Amateur Taxidermist

    Brian, it is my opinion that if you post a picture of your own work on a taxidermy site, you open yourself up for critiques. If someone else had posted Paul's fish I would have 100% agreed with you, but Paul posted it himself. He then posted an even larger, close up shot so everyone could see his handy work. That is someone not afraid of being critiqued, and with Paul's talent he has no reason to be. Paul's a great fish taxidermist, and his bluegill looks spectacular. I'd have no business being in the same room as him and others at that show. That doesn't mean it's flawless. My issue is when someone complains on here about losing, how it's not fair, and the judges were wrong. If you want to have a private discussion with Larry that's your prerogative, but some of the stuff I've read in this thread is whiny at best. Mr. Bauman lost by 1/3 of one point, and I didn't see him starting any threads, or throwing any tantrums. You all should learn something about class from his actions.