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Simple observation

Discussion in 'The Taxidermy Industry' started by Rick Carter, May 20, 2013.

  1. Bill Yox

    Bill Yox Well-Known Member

    I very much disagree.
  2. antlerman

    antlerman NTA Life Member #0118

    So, using your logic..........we have perhaps the best whitetail at the show or at the very least the second best there entered as a professional entry. Only one head perhaps was better. All the other Masters entries paled in comparison. So youre telling me that even though these other heads failed to make the mark you would award them a World Title when perhaps the best head was on the other side of the room? ???

  3. davehyer

    davehyer Active Member

    I'm with bill on that one, what if all the mounts were sub par? There has to be a scoring system of some kind.
  4. George

    George The older I get, the better I was.

    I must've missed something here. WHY?

    We've just concluded that (1) there is no such thing as a "standard" to judge AGAINST, (2) we've questioned the logic behind one judge being able to skew the entire class of mounts, and (3) we have doubts as to the motives behind the judging. So what is there to disagree about?

    If the Sabers won the best of 7 games in the NHL playoffs, would you deny them the Stanley Cup because they weren't as good as last years winner? And since that's a rhetorical question that I already know the answer to, what logic do you use in implying that taxidermy "World Championships" are any different?
  5. Nancy C

    Nancy C Well-Known Member

    I agree with Bill.
    The award doesn't mean anything if they have to curve the grade in order for someone to win it.
    If you go to the world show then you are going up against the big dogs. If you don't like it, stay on the porch.
    A lot of awesome mounts are going to come away from there with nothing, and that's just the way it is. A third in the Master's Division of the WTC means a lot more than a 1st at any other show, and the reason is because they don't compromise.
  6. Bill Yox

    Bill Yox Well-Known Member

    Well...I didnt conclude there isnt a standard, you did. The real animal is the standard, and the scoresheet, used correctly, is a checklist to that. It must meet that CRITERIA.

    If the Sabres played against a scoresheet, perhaps that analogy would hold water (ice).

    George, you and I have never agreed on this point when we debated best of category in the past. It aint a foot race. The mount has to meet criteria recognized by a competent evaluator using a scoresheet.
  7. 3bears

    3bears Well-Known Member

    I see no problem with a minimum point requirement for an award that so many hold as such a high honor. I wouldn't want to win a world title with something scoring lower. That would cheapen the whole experience. Sure losing sucks but one should use it as inspiration to do better next time.
  8. George

    George The older I get, the better I was.

    And well never agree because who determined a "competent evaluator" and a "standard" is just as elusive as Sasquatch. I do NOT think a score less than 90 should ever win a high award, however.
  9. Cole

    Cole Amateur Taxidermist

    You don't think a score under 90 should win, but you take issue with determining a competent evaluator? Sounds contradictory.
  10. antlerman

    antlerman NTA Life Member #0118

    George....you just posted an oxymoron. LOL
  11. kevin scott

    kevin scott New Member

    You can't have a competition and not have a winner . If you go to a car show someone will win best of class , they don't deny the award based on the fact that last years cars were better . The mounts may not have been as good as years past , but they were the best at the competition ,therefore , they have to be the winner/winners . Without a winner it's just an exhibit , so why bother scoring , just critique and move on . Tim , as far as the reference to the " pro " entry outscoring the" masters" entry , I would hope that the scoring would be more stringent in the "masters" class , if not , why the difference in categories .
    Please note that I have never " competed " at a taxidermy convention , only in events where some one actually has to win , which apparently isn't the case with taxidermy . therefore , my questions and/or comments are from an observing position . Please do not misconstrue my comments , they are not meant to offend , simply trying to understand .
  12. Steven Klee

    Steven Klee Steven Klee Studios

  13. Question?
    Lets say you know who the judge is going to be in advance, would you set up a mount to is liking or maybe use one of his forms.
  14. Harry Whitehead

    Harry Whitehead I love to hunt Buffalos!!!!!

    Hell no!! The judges likes or dislikes doesn't matter to me....the animal is the REAL standard. You mount your subject based upon reference. The presentation is left up to you, the competitor!!!!
  15. Bill Yox

    Bill Yox Well-Known Member

    Steve and Kevin, sorry guys, I again, respectfully disagree. The animal definitely IS the standard. But this isnt a "creation" contest, its a taxidermy competition. The judge as an evaluator is grading how well you used taxidermy procedure using the animal as the standard, as best as our sustem can as it is in place.

    Steve, believe it or not, there really ARE those of us as judges who do NOT use the symmetry thing. I correct it and say its balance. Quick example...when a judge looks at the eyes and says one is different than the other? Well, if theyre rotated to look left or right, they SHOULD be different. Balanced, but not symmetric. On the other hand though, if one eye orbit is higher in the form, while a skull COULD be that way, Im likely going to mention it, especially when we know a certain form may have that flaw, or if it causes the mount some other problems, such as ear placement or other features not compensated...ei balance. Yes, a bit of a double standard, but at least we know the rules.

    I am not saying that the best mount shouldnt win, I am saying in multiple ribbon shows a mount scoring highest is recognized as a boc if it achieves a first place ribbon, but a world title has to meet a more stringent criteria, and may not always be awarded, at least not automatically.
  16. George

    George The older I get, the better I was.

    Bill, you keep saying that but you know it's a lie. "The animal"is a generic term. I'll bet you knew every doe you had by appearance. You'd have known them if they weren't in your pen. None of them looked the same and therefore there was no "standard". Rick Carter, Joe Meder, Brad Epply, Dennis Behn, Aaron Connelly, Joe Coombs, Mike Frazier, Bill Lancaster, Ben Mears, Matt Thompson....which one of those forms is "standard"? You alter every form you use, so does that make it "standard"?

    It's just MY OPINION, but I think ANY TIME, ANYONE hosts a "world" ANYTHING, there should be a "champion". When it doesn't happen, it looks like pomposity and pretentiousness. Are you prepared to tell me that the very first Whitetail World Champion- and every one after that- would have been proclaimed "champion" at this show? After all, according to you, that IS the "standard".

    BTW deer just got in here. My post was about a Largemouth bass.
  17. Cole

    Cole Amateur Taxidermist

    There was a Champion, Brian Noody won it with a Striped Bass. There has been a champion in every WTC ever held.
  18. Bill Yox

    Bill Yox Well-Known Member

    George, we are friends, but please dont say this to me...

    "Bill, you keep saying that but you know it's a lie. "

    Also, I really do believe what I do, we just dont agree. Or maybe we do...

    "...which one of those forms is "standard"? You alter every form you use, so does that make it "standard"?"

    Yes, they sculpt, and I alter as I see fit, according to the live animal.

    The standard is the animal, as an average, not as a individual. Look, if my explanation just doesnt sit well with you, walk with me for a weekend as I judge, perhaps youll see it differently. For now, I see no sense in trying to persuade you or anyone else that disagrees. I respect your opinions, but I think people might see differently depending on their vantage points.
  19. Bill Yox

    Bill Yox Well-Known Member

    Oh, and btw George, I also do not know why there wasnt a best in world bass, Im told by many there shouldve been. Just like another show where there was no bass or turkey BinW. Yet Ive been told otherwise in other categories. I just dont have those answers.
  20. kevin scott

    kevin scott New Member

    Ok , so you are saying that there was a winner in each class and recognized , but no one scored high enough to claim "world champ" ?