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Simple observation

Discussion in 'The Taxidermy Industry' started by Rick Carter, May 20, 2013.

  1. Steven Klee

    Steven Klee Steven Klee Studios

     
  2. Cole

    Cole Amateur Taxidermist

    The highest scoring bass scored 89.67, and must earn a 90 or better to win the "World Champion" title. If by recognized you mean awarded a red ribbon, then yes.
     

  3. kbauman

    kbauman Active Member

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    OK
    The other recognition sounds better. (LOL)
     
  4. George

    George The older I get, the better I was.

    Bill, we ARE friends and you've always been on my list of objective and conscientious judges I know. I just think you're dissociative To how the guys not on that list are. Anyone who'd post a score of 89.67 is a clown who has a sinister enjoyment of embarrassing someone. Why would ANY conscientious person dangle a carrot like that? We both know it leaves a competitor frustrated and wondering what he might have do to earn TWENTYTHREE HUNDREDTHS OF A POINT.

    I know what you're saying and you know I'd never question your integrity, just your objectivity on THIS POST.
     
  5. Ted B

    Ted B Active Member

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    If I'm not mistaken Cole (and I very well may be) to qualify for either Best in world, second or 3rd in the World you have to score over 90, so a piece scoring 89.67 would recieve NO ribbon in masters.

    Thats the way I understand it, but like I said I could be mistaken
     
  6. Bill Yox

    Bill Yox Well-Known Member

    I wish we all were talking instead of typing.

    George, I dont have the answer as to why some guys do it differently, but trust me Ive been on the competitor end of this too. Remember, I still (try to) compete. I really DO know what you guys are saying. I try my best to conduct myself accordingly. George I also do not know why they scored that fish, or other mounts in the past, that way, and Im not sure I know how to correct it or prevent it in the future either. Im not being less than objective, Im just not naming names...my stuff gets judged rough enough because of my bluntness as it is, lol.

    Steve, I wrote this earlier...

    "Steve, believe it or not, there really ARE those of us as judges who do NOT use the symmetry thing. I correct it and say its balance. Quick example...when a judge looks at the eyes and says one is different than the other? Well, if theyre rotated to look left or right, they SHOULD be different. Balanced, but not symmetric. On the other hand though, if one eye orbit is higher in the form, while a skull COULD be that way, Im likely going to mention it, especially when we know a certain form may have that flaw, or if it causes the mount some other problems, such as ear placement or other features not compensated...ei balance. Yes, a bit of a double standard, but at least we know the rules. "

    I stand by what I said. Have you ever been judged by me? Im just asking.
     
  7. scandler

    scandler New Member

    just lay it out on the table for the ones that dont have a damen clue as to what yall a re arguing about ! please fill in the gaps for us that didnt go to the show. i just read 9 pages and still dont know what deal is . thanks in advance
     
  8. MIKEO-PA

    MIKEO-PA Mike and Jen Olszanowski, pa

    [[/quote]

    So, using your logic..........we have perhaps the best whitetail at the show or at the very least the second best there entered as a professional entry. Only one head perhaps was better. All the other Masters entries paled in comparison. So youre telling me that even though these other heads failed to make the mark you would award them a World Title when perhaps the best head was on the other side of the room? ???
    [/quote]

    so antlerman you must have some inside info or perhaps you were privy to the score sheets and the judges critiques. I wish I would have known you were such a whitetail expert, I would have come rite to you for my critique. I feel terrible now my deer must of really sucked!!
     
  9. Harry Whitehead

    Harry Whitehead I love to hunt Buffalos!!!!!

    What antlerman is talking about is that there was a buzz about a deer in the professional division that was really nice, (it won BOC in the division) and could have been in contention had it been in the Masters. Just what I have heard..... There were many other things that were ODD besides who won the deer heads. The right guy won. Jack Emery had the best deer. Let's move on....
     
  10. v.fleming

    v.fleming New Member

    Mike I loved your deer, you stepped out of the box and had a very nice piece of art.

    Something that hit me today about the World Show. Some have said there should be a winner in each category,some have said not. For me, this is the World Show, the highest level of competition we have. And I think there is a standard, the live animal, bird, fish,etc. that we are trying to create. Some have compared a World title to other things like sports, big difference. In baseball, football, racing and so on, you have to play games and qualify to be able to make it to the dance. What if you had to do that to compete at the Worlds. Carry your piece to state shows and regionals to be judged on World standards to see if your piece is good enough to come to the Worlds. How many Masters pieces would have been at the last show if is were the case. But it does't work like that, anyone can show up and compete. So this is why, in my opinion, there are World titles not given out, there was nothing to meet the standard. Some judges do have blinders on and are not opened minded to what animals can do. Just because it does't look like there pet deer or squirrel, they say it's wrong. Judging is a very hard thing to do. I respect them and try to live with whatever they decide, but I don't have to agree with them.
     
  11. Brian Claar

    Brian Claar New Member

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    Good explanation Vince.
    I think your right . This isn't a dog show and the Judges are not out to get you. LOL
    A few people are not happy but Most of them are and except what they got. It sounds to me like some people want it to be like school sports today where EVERYONE gets a trophy. I think the WTC is set up just how it should be. Larry must be doing something right, look how big the show was.
     
  12. antlerman

    antlerman NTA Life Member #0118

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    so antlerman you must have some inside info or perhaps you were privy to the score sheets and the judges critiques. I wish I would have known you were such a whitetail expert, I would have come rite to you for my critique. I feel terrible now my deer must of really sucked!!

    I'm sorry if you feel a personal attack. I don't know you nor which deer was yours. I assure you nothing is personal. I'm no expert, but I did spend a lot of time with one of the judges asking questions and seeing where and why deer failed to make the mark in the masters area. It was a very educating experience. I learned so much. Perhaps you should have done the same and you would know why your deer sucked as you say. There's only one way to find out why they suck. ASK. If you didn't ask the judge, maybe ask that guy with the Professional head. He knows his stuff for sure and will be a contender in 2015 I'm sure. Jack Emery had best whitetail in the professional division in 2011, and now the best in the world in 2013. Seems guys coming from the pro ranks and winning the worlds is perhaps becoming a trend.
     
  13. Just curious was it one of the Judges that judged this years whitetail or just one of the judges in general from this years show or a past judge etc.
     
  14. Riverland

    Riverland New Member

    They do have a division you need to qualify for its called thr master of masters. There were piles of entries there that were entered in state shows the previous years , many were best of category and best of shows. Some choose not to attend state shows for various reasons . As s full time taxidermist I choose to attend SCI banquets and similar functions that fall in the same time as many of the state shows near me. So the qualifying thing would be out for me and four of the last five world shows I would have been out of luck for something to bring...
     
  15. MIKEO-PA

    MIKEO-PA Mike and Jen Olszanowski, pa

    Well said V.Fleming. I was honored just to be able to display my work at such a great show. I also believe there needs to be a standard maintained, I was satisfied with what the judges scored me at and what they told me in the critiques. I enjoy competing and have no plans of giving up I will try to come up with something creative and try harder for the next time.
     
  16. davehyer

    davehyer Active Member

    I think to make it fair the three judges should score the mount and turn in their score sheets with out looking at or discussing them with the other judges. Let the score sheets decide who wins. If you score an 89.75 than that's what you scored.

    I don't think judges should try to sway another judges opinion, if they weren't believed to be competent judges they probably wouldn't have been selected.

    I don't understand why its relevant that there was a deer in pro that was was better than some masters deer, don't the competitors decide where they will compete? If you enter pro you know you can't win best in world right?
     
  17. George

    George The older I get, the better I was.

    Dave, I'm just going to ignore that comment. NO I'M NOT. Your comments are exactly the same as saying no one should question that POS in the Whitehouse since the majority of Americans who voted elected him. I'd like an explanation of how ANY PINHEAD JUDGE can decide six tenths of a point. With 100 friggin points available, he can't find whole numbers?????
     
  18. catman

    catman Active Member

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    The way that one worked out was. Two judges saw it as a 90, the third judge saw it as an 89. The average said no dice fish guy. That is how it went down right or wrong or otherwise. Weather or not the judge with the 89 knew he was keeping the taxidermist from getting a coin, I cannot say. But by giving him an 89 he was stating that he felt it was not worthy.
     
  19. antlerman

    antlerman NTA Life Member #0118

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    Point blank......it was one of this years judges who is also a person whom I plan to study more with. After the banquet, I was as confused as anyone about why there wasn't a second and a third best in world whitetail...SO I ASKED. The results were things pointed out that I could see and things I didn't see. I saw an ear rotated in such a way that didn't correlate with what the ear butt was doing. I saw an open mouth where the bottom teeth could never mesh with the top palate when the mouth would close. I saw a translucent tongue which may look cool but is not correct. All things that I would assume a master division competitor would know, but evidently just because a person has the balls to go to that side of the room doesn't mean they are beyond mistakes. The guy on the other side of the room with the best pro head had fewer mistakes than those in the elite section. That's why it is significant to me. It showed me that most of the heads on the elite side were there simply because they had the balls to put them there. Personally, I don't have that big of a set yet. ;)


    Dave, I'm just going to ignore that comment. NO I'M NOT. Your comments are exactly the same as saying no one should question that POS in the Whitehouse since the majority of Americans who voted elected him. I'd like an explanation of how ANY PINHEAD JUDGE can decide six tenths of a point. With 100 friggin points available, he can't find whole numbers?????

    George, that is the average of 90, 90 and 89. Two judges said it barely made it and 1 judge said it barely didn't make it. Sucks to be that competitor for sure, but if all three had scored it a 94........then it wasn't barely anything. It would have been solid.
     
  20. davehyer

    davehyer Active Member

    George I agree with the whole numbers thing, that is getting a little ridiculous.

    I was just saying that if you are going to use a score sheet then use it and let it decide the winners.