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Simple observation

Discussion in 'The Taxidermy Industry' started by Rick Carter, May 20, 2013.

  1. antlerman

    antlerman NTA Life Member #0118

    so whats Larry, Skip, and Ken suppose to do? Award something the judges said didn't merit it? I'm just curious as to what you expect.
  2. Bill Yox

    Bill Yox Well-Known Member

    Im not commenting on Randy's thing, that to me is another topic, one I have no interest in. But the numerical score thing, I can say this...How many times do I hear guys say the final score is bs, as a judge can pull any arbitrary number out of his butt. Well, the judge has a pretty good feel of whether a piece is 1st 2nd or 3rd, and whether its high, middle or low within that 10 point placement for each. He has a small amount of time to judge and write comments for many mounts. So, do you want him to check every box, and add and subtract every number value? Id say you would like him to come up with ONE so-called arbitrary final score, instead of coming up with EVERY equally arbitrary point value, and HOPE it adds up to the final score he felt it deserved.

  3. catman

    catman Active Member

    Ken, you are the man! You know what it feels like to win and you know how it stings to not win. Not winning by a 1/3 of a point is brutal, but your attitude inspires me. If anyone knows what it takes to win the Best in world bass it is you. Sometimes we do not realize that we missed the bullseye until we get home. The bullseye is to convince the judges or people voting to pick your piece above the others. This is what makes it a game. To feel like you have at least one better mount in you is what will make you become, perhaps a Legend. Taking the high road will earn you more respect than you can imagine.
  4. Cole

    Cole Amateur Taxidermist

  5. Nancy C

    Nancy C Well-Known Member

    AMEN to this!
    If a judge sees a mount that he really feels is NOT a first place mount, but that it only misses it by a tiny bit, then, according to George, they should give that mount an 88 instead of an 89.

    Speaking as both a competitor and a judge, I vehemently disagree with this half-baked notion.
    An 89 tells me that I came VERY close to making it. I know damn good and well why a judge gives an 89, and it's NOT intended as an insult. It is most assuredly NOT due to the judge lacking the balls to give some other, easier-to-swallow score. On the contrary, it's intended as encouragement and a way to say "Try just a little bit harder next time; you almost made it."
    If I have more than one mount in a show and one gets an 89 while one gets an 88, I know that I did better on the one that got an 89.

    Don't try to read something into a score that simply isn't there. An 89 is what it is: almost a first place, but not quite.
    Anything lower than that is just a high second place.

    As for the fractional score? Well, duh ... That's just how math works when you average numbers that don't quite match. It's not anything more than that.
  6. dartondude

    dartondude New Member

    George, your arms must be getting tired from keeping this pot stirred. for someone that doesn't have a horse in the race you sure have allot to say.

    [email protected], i would like to pass along some words of advice that were given to me, don't fall in love with your work!

    better judgement will keep me from saying any thing else, maybe some of you should give it a try :D
  7. George

    George The older I get, the better I was.

    Not at all dartondude. I just have to laugh at the feeble attempts to justify it.

    Nancy, your comment of "reading something into the score" is particularly amusing. Taxidermy judges who give an 89 are DEPENDING ON SOMEONE READING INTO IT. True "judging" depends on "pass/fail" - nothing more, nothing less. Taxidermy "judging" is a farce in an enemy attempt to combine an academic system ostracized with a legal one. If you score an 89 on a history test, no matter how many teachers look at that test, your score will never change and you'll know what it took to get a 90. If you go to a jury trial, civilian courts require 12 identical opinions to find you either guilty or innocent. Anything less requires another jury or charges dismissed ( military courts just take the majority vote to reach a verdict.) From those of you justifying it, my question has yet to be answered and the more I see your ranks closing with subtle references to your future competition entries. Why not spend that effort closing your ranks around less SUBJECTIVITY and more OBJECTIVITY. IF someone's "style" identifies who did it, you rode to the comp with the entrant, you know the entrant personally, or you gave advise, why not simply recuse yourself? Especially if the person isn't on your Christmas card list.

    And PLEASE don't deny the ego issue. Being selected as a WTC judge is just as gratifying as having won a ribbon. I hear it and see it on bios to often to buy into that idea.
  8. Harry Whitehead

    Harry Whitehead I love to hunt Buffalos!!!!!

    I agree that a judge KNOWS what place the entry scores be it 1st, 2nd or 3rd and making it work out on the scoresheet is the hardest part to judging. I personally don't give out 89's. It makes it more difficult to give a critique where just 1 point keeps the guy from getting a Blue. If you're gonna go by the thought that an 89 means you're almost there just give him a 89.9 and tell him why he didn't get that 1/10 of a point!! I personally don't like to argue over a scoresheet with a competitor about 1 point.....
  9. quest

    quest Member

    Lets use the round up or round down method. If its 89.6 round up.
  10. Derrin

    Derrin New Member

    Amen x2
  11. rd@nt

    [email protected] New Member

    I am not in love with my work it speaks for itself. As for a lot of mounts entered in the fish category maybe 11 as I remember in Proffesional and 6 were mine. Maybe i5 in masters So I guess the judges had a lot of work Bs. I could care less about the other categories Fish And Fish reproductions Is what I am talking about. If you want my history look it up. I don't just enter a species of fish I have entered a lot of different species of fish and reproductions over the years since 1983 on and off. When I entered Professional It was more like what I would for a customer But When I did My Repro Sturgeon and entered in masters For best in world I cant do one better. Listen This was my final Show to go to. Except Maybe our state show and now I am not sure of that either. This is not the first this has happened to me. But I am saying my piece. I hope you guys in the future do not go threw what I have. Also in the Reproduction category if they would think about it Give a best in world out? Change the score system Make A judge work for the score not just walk up and say oh That's a ninety. I did this once Judging Simon Blackshaws fish. But after I took my time and used the score sheet properly I scored it 96 and convinced the judges for best of show also. I hope I spelled it alright. Not one response from Michigan? Randy D.
  12. MattZ

    MattZ New Member

    Ken, I know you were disappointed with your 89, but your attitude toward it now is great. That "see you in 2015" is good to hear. Having once scored 89 at a national show, I told myself I'll get a 90 next time. Did an 89 hurt? -absolutely- but having that same judge give me a 90 years later -priceless.
  13. catman

    catman Active Member

    Randy, you are not that old. This is not a sport, you have more in you, at least I think you do. A.W. Tozer once said something like this. "Unless a man is crushed he can never achieve greatness" Think about it, you know it is true. Take what happened, and at the bear minimum grow personally, better yet grow artistically as well.
  14. rd@nt

    [email protected] New Member

    catman I am 60years old thanks for the complement Randy D.
  15. bmdakk

    bmdakk Report to moderator

    I dont do fish, as well as I dont even compete. But I think George is spot on with the 90,90,89. The 89 is like giving a $.09 Tip to a waitress, It isnt worth a DIME!!, and an insult!!!!!
  16. Harum

    Harum Active Member

    If achieving a world title was easy I would have no interest in trying. Obviously the human factor is involved creating even more of a challenge. If that is too hard to accept then make your own medallion,


    Your Bass is beautiful. I would love to display that piece in my house!

    Mr Desormeau,

    I sure hope you change your mind and continue to bring work to the world show as I would enjoy competing against you. I enjoy a good challenge ;)

    A little personal perspective on "the standard". In an industry that continues to evolve a predetermined standard can only hold us back. Sure we can look at past work and get a good idea where the level of craftsmanship should start but we should strive to go beyond these preconceived ideals. Although it is clearly unattainable, the exact representation of a living animal should be our primary target. The very fact that it is unattainable sets the stage for continued improvement. This would also make that magic number 90 even harder to achieve in the years to come but without that we would stagnate and inspire little attention to our choice of artistic expression.

  17. Cole

    Cole Amateur Taxidermist

    Contradiction like this needs separated by a comma. I am not in love with my work, (comma) it speaks for itself

    Perhaps they are embarrassed.
  18. B Jones

    B Jones Memeber of - NTA,UTA,AIT.Proud Member of NZTA.

    Wow you are sixty, sorry but I would expect this from a teenager or a twenty year old. This wining about not getting what you perceive to be a World title mount is silly from where I sit. Why can't people just accept what they get and move on, this should set a fire in your belly to show all what you are truly capable of. I sure hope its not an entitlement issue. Get mad call me names ask me what business is it of mine, what ever. I am just seeing it from another perspective. I sure would not send Larry or any other organizer of a show my score sheet hoping it would get me what I think I deserve. I don't get it???
  19. *

    * Liberalism IS A MENTAL ILLNESS !

    COLE.....19 I's count'em ...... in one paragraph..
    Nuff said... I'm from Michigan.
  20. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

    It was a tough show guys. I couldn't call it. I stared at that striped bass for longer than I have ever looked at a fish. Tracy Jacobsons Goat is still the best one I have ever seen mounted. IMHO. I judged it in Utah 2 years ago and I would have given it best of show back then if it hadn't been a bit on the wet side! My competitors choice ballot went to Harrys Turkey and it was a toss up with Dales Snow Goose for that vote. My only complaint was that the room was a bit small to properly view so many fine pieces. Crowding does nothing to enhance a mount. The recipe for winning was right there for everyone to see. Just pull off the kind of miracle that Kent Reedy did! Kudos to everyone who brought a mount to the greatest taxidermy show on Earth.