What is your take ?

Put yourself in the shoes of that competitior, if that were you and your piece you would walk away with the winnings without looking back, I could only assume, you would not turn it down.

Whoever runs that show and made the rules for it has the final say. This happens all the time in competition sometimes the field is strong sometimes its not.

There is never a perfect piece, every piece has its flaws. IMO

 

This same topic is running already, see...

http://www.taxidermy.net/forum/index.php/topic,341551.0.html

I dont like the idea, personally, I still maintain that a mount has to meet a minimum on a scoresheet as criteria or the evil word "standard". Others think differently, of course. Perhaps when a competition is a commercially supported contest, it changes how a winner is picked, I just dont agree.

 

I think i know what show and who you are talking about but there has never been a mount in competition that was perfect there are flaws in evetyones work

 

I feel it's really simple they voted or judged what was there . . . not what or who could have or should have been at the show. You don't judge the mounts that were at last years show and compere them to this years show even if you feel they might have been better would you? JMO

 

Howdy,

A few times I have been the highest scoring piece in a category in masters division. But I was not awarded "Best of Category". I can remember one time I had a beautiful greater entered. I thought it was amazing. The judge who I will not name but is HIGHLY repected gave me the highest score out of any of the masters waterfowl 89. When I got to talk to the judge he stated there was a symmetry issue with my primaries and I mean a tiny bit of asymmetry that very few people would have noticed. He said that is fatal and no one can be first if they do that. Besides that he said the bird was the best Canadas goose he had seen in a long time and pretty much perfect. Gave me the 89 I think just to rub my nose in it. I still know the guy and I do respect him very much but that one hurt. You can have these calls go both ways that's why its called judgment.

One year I di win best of Category in masters waterfowl. The bird was the most plain mount you ever saw and I had a major mechanical issue with the mount. I thought at best I would score an 85. The judge didn't notice the mechanical issue and I went home with the plaque. Some of my competitors still grumble about it today.

The pendulum swings both ways and there will always be sour grapes and undeserved awards. I know which ones I enjoy more and no matter what I won that I didn't deserve or the screwing that I didn't see coming, I always walk away smarter for the next year.

 

So if your in a foot race with ten other people and you cross the line first and the officials come over and say," you know none of you ran like an olympic runner so were not giving out any medals". What do you think the participation level would be going forward if this was the case. I really think if there is a chance for everyone to compete and no levels set in the category before you get there, then you will have great participation especially when people have poured their heart and souls into a piece and spent the money they do to get there and be there. My opinion

 

No, but you judge against a criteria and standard. Do you want to win a world title with a great, legit mount, only to have your across town competitor win with a subpar, best at that show title...and advertise it against you???

A foot race is not a competition using a scoresheet, I dont know why some guys dont see that. You can cross the finish line a day later, but if youre the first guy to cross, you do win that race. It has nothing to do with a judged taxidermy comp, however.

 

Bill, you're still stuck on that "standard" aren't you? LMAO

Studmuffin, me thinks you're in for a rude awakening. There is no "standard" out there and the judge is to be commended for judging the field. When judges don't judge the field, they send a negative message to everyone who witnesses the event. I've actually seen a show where a judge didn't award a single blue ribbon. His remark was, "I can do better work than every one of those and they don't deserve a blue.". He wasn't invited back and I let others know about his attitude. If the guy who has truly crappy work there looks on and sees the the very best piece he sees only got a second place, it can be devasting TO THE SHOW. Why would he come back when he sees the quality that far surpasses his not getting a blue ribbon. He knows if that can't ribbon, he doesn't ever stand a chance.

Two of my dear friends made comments to me I'm never going to forget.

"Regardless of how good you are and the awards you've won, you still have to gut and skin out the animal just like everyone else." Bill Yox

"No one entering a competition ever brought a bad piece. He brought the very best work he was capable of and all of his friends and family told him so. How he's treated can make or break a good taxidermist." Ken Walker

 

Sorry George, Ive judged too long, competed too long, to agree. At the state level we do things a bit differently, we are often grooming first time competitors, and making sure a state organization stays afloat. The world show or any high level competition is not the same thing.

 

When I judge a show, which I'm doing tomorrow It all boils down to the "strength of the room"
Is their a best piece there? Yup. Would it do as we'll in another show? Depends on the strength of that show

 

You go to a state show. You see entries winning all kinds of awards there in the masters division. You go to the World show. You see those same mounts in the PRO division with seconds on them. This year at the worlds, my judge told me my entry would score 6-10 pts higher at a state show. I think many are thinking that their entry is better than it is based on how they did at the state level. This is the Worlds. The criteria is different. The standard is different, but there is a standard. A standard that most can't obtain, yet many think they are entitled. Where the entitlement comes from, I'm not sure. Workmanship has definitely evolved. Materials have evolved. There are things available today that were not available 10, 20 years ago, YET a species of animal has not changed. A deer is a deer, a fish is a fish. Some artists have evolved with the times. Some have not. Once someone comes along with something new and innovative, a new higher standard is established. Not in the species, but in the innovation used to recreate. An example might be Rick Carters slip cast ears. Innovative for sure. Did he raise the standard? Probably.

Once was a time when you only saw those in the masters division doing open mouth casting. Now days a professional competitor in hopes of winning, best be doing his own casting as well. However, doing something and doing it RIGHT is still a standard.

Two years ago, V. Flemming and Keith Bowman had entries that were incredable and you walked away wondering how they did that. They stood strong in the field, and set a standard for the rest of us to try to obtain. There were NO entries this year that met the standard that Vince and Keith set two years ago.

The standard has risen so high that many former winners will never compete again. What you are left with is competitors who haven't won yet, and may never win on the big stage because the standard has been raised higher than most can achieve. But there is a standard, and it keeps getting higher and higher when someone comes along and truly kicks ass. And that's why the top winners spend two years on a piece.

There were a lot of very nice pieces that didn't win this year. But the ones that did.........raised the standard even higher. If you are not keeping up to the standard of todays competitions, whose fault is that? The Judges? Not hardly. They've seen those pieces that raised the bar, which became the new standard.

 

Standard is a joke... WHO sets the standard? Maybe we can get ONE judge do all the shows and also do the WTC show so that we can know HIS standard.......Then maybe just maybe we can mount up a animal that look like HIS standard so that we can win., so now you got all the colors right the feathers right, the scales right, the hair patterns right, and all the things that HE likes, HIS standard. What a joke..... In your eyes it may not be the best, but in my eyes it is. I talk to a judge at the WTC show that was so full of His self I thought I should have put a cape on Him and called Him supper man...And I was not even competing. STANDARD is just a MAN made word that HE sees only from HIS eyes. Guys it still a CONTEST in this little planet the we call earth, and some of these judges needs to come back and put there feet back on the dirt. Like a have said It is just a contest and somebody should win....

 

Standard is a joke... WHO sets the standard?

THE COMPETITORS

 

Lets put it this way...if theres no standard, then how do you mount your mount?

 

I cannot comment on why other folks choose to participate in events or not, but personally, given your scenario, my response is to train harder and run faster. I'm not interested in what others bestow on me, I'm interested in my own maximum potential. There are plenty of gentle categories at all the shows for those who wish to enter them, and that's not bad either. Just not for me; I'll take my medicine and go forward. (Sometimes, the worse you do, the faster you improve.) I'd say the competitions pretty well cater to all sorts of folk.

I've brushed on this "moving target" in the other thread and personally think the "standard" exists from competition to competition as the discretion of the judges of each individual event, much like Doug is saying. HOWEVER, let me add that I personally like stiff competition and tough judging because it's often what drives innovation and advances what we do.

Best, Scott

 

There is a goal.