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taxidermy math ignorance

Discussion in 'The Taxidermy Industry' started by James Marsico, Jun 19, 2013.

  1. jake7719

    jake7719 Well-Known Member

    So when did the IRS start basing what you pay in taxes according to your overhead ? :eek:

    Why do Taxidermist think that there business is some how different when it comes to making money? I don't care if you are selling hot dogs on the street corner or your services as a Taxidermist. Overhead is one of the most important aspects in running a business. 5% VS 35% is a huge difference, if you make so much money that 30% dose not matter then at the end of the year put it in an envelop and send it to me.
  2. .
    Since forever. They deduct your overhead out of your gross sales to determine how much profit you made. You pay taxes on the profit you made, not your gross sales

  3. timwilly

    timwilly I lost my agenda !!!

    no part timers chiming in among the elitist, so I'll be the bad guy. I look at it as extra from my other job and charge accordingly. After 28 years in the business I manage about a two percent profit after all is paid....including myself...so my business plan is solid. Everything that I have read in this post is mostly boo hoo crap. I never once cared what someone else charged and don't care now. I think that some of you guys posting would rather guys like me just go away and quit taking money out of your pocket. Well guess what? I'm coming after it all. I serve mostly high end clientele and have worked hard at it to get there. I don't post often or even visit here often, mostly looking for different ideas. The elitist BS just rubs me the wrong way. I'm a just a hack making you guys go broke....yeah right. Some of you should be downright ashamed of yourselves.
  4. Tanglewood Taxidermy

    Tanglewood Taxidermy Well-Known Member

    When i set my prices I took ALL of my over head, cost of materials, what I wanted to pay myself, and what profit I wanted to make into consideration. Who cares what someone else is making as long as I get what I need as a part timer. Or so I thought. Just for reference I looked into what other taxidermists charged, knowing that I would Not go down in price no matter what the locals were charging, and saw right away that I was about $150.00 cheaper than 1/2 of them, so I Increased my pricing by $200.00 and have gone up every year. The point is, there is getting what you need, which is fine, and then there is getting more than you need while still offering a decent price, as in " I make enough to get by" and in " I get to go to Alaska hunting for 20 days after I get back from Hawaii." I have chosen the latter.
  5. George

    George The older I get, the better I was.

    timwilly, from my experience, feeling such as yours where you call us "ELITIST Bullcrap" comes from a realization that your side of the argument really makes no sense at all. Just like Jake's about charging two prices (That sounds like Hawaii where there are three prices: one for howleys, one for tourists, and finally, one for native Hawaiians. Queerbec is good for that as well. One price for English speakers and one for French speakers.)

    I learned long ago that all my prices are based on giving my friends the best deal possible. All my clients are my friends. I depend on my friends to make an hones living. My enemies take their work down the road to the other guy.
  6. michael p.

    michael p. Getting better with age :)

    A lowballer steals nothing..... except money that could have been in his families bank account. 'Elitists' bug you..... is that because your high end clients are laughing because you work for them at such a cheaper wage?

    Elitists bug you.... LMAO!

    I hope every taxidermist charging a $100 less than there areas market value gets 100 more heads. I hope they get all the work they cannot handle! LOL

    You really just said that?
  7. Wages is what you earn, Profit is what you use to take a vacation. Part timers are working overtime in their shop. Yep after their 40 hour a week the slave in the basement for less than minimum wage.
  8. *

    * Liberalism IS A MENTAL ILLNESS !

    timwilly I personally don't see 2% as a solid business profit.... ;D

    You must, I mean must, have forgotten a zero after that 2....

    If you didn't you wont be going after anything... You won't have the funds to grow your "going for it all" business , And your just lucky inflation is only 3% your only loosing 1% every year.
  9. Bill Yox

    Bill Yox Well-Known Member

    You guys can slice it any way you want, justify why you cant charge more, its still minimum wage. We that charge more arent high and mighty, or elitists, or egotistical or anything else. We are just guys who have finally figured out that our time is worth more than minimum wage. We have figured out that a majority DO want to pay top dollar for work, and we can get it...by asking for it. We have figured out that our family is happier, too. We used to price low to keep a steady supply of work...until we figured out that the guys paying us low prices were at their kids ball games...and we were not. Thats the fact.

    I am honest and sincere when I say I am glad many of you charge so low for a mount. I dont think youre wrong to, I just think youre leaving money on the table. The industry has a balance, and of course, you guys can quote "free country" all you want, Id call it "free taxidermy" for those prices. I think if some guys are low, some are middle of the road, and some are high, in any given market, everyone stays busy.

    You guys wanna know why I try to stay high priced, and high detailed in my mounts, regardless of the economy, and what many of you say against it? Its simple. PRIDE.
  10. Steven .B

    Steven .B New Member

    Got to look at it like this also I don't know or is it any of my business on who makes what.. There is a lot of different ways to look at this ...

    1. Depending where you live the cost of living.. and this varies from state to state..
    2. How big you over head is on everything you own and want to own..
    3.. How many kids you have and have to take care of.. family man of wife and three kids... or a Single guy who as to worry just about him..
    4.Do you have a full time job other than taxidermy or is this your way of life.. Guy that has a good full time job medical insurance coverage. Doesn't have to worry about covering the cost of med insurance as a full time taxidermist does..
    5. Is he doing for a hobby charging his buddy's cost because he likes doing it or is it a job he like doing it and he make a career out of it.

    There just to many differences and I could go on forever weighing these things out... This should be a place where we can get together and talk, post our work, ask other for advise or give if needed. trade ideas and keep up with the latest and greatest.. Not sit on here and worry who making what and who does what with there money... There are 22 other's in a perimeter around me. If all I got done all day was worry about who's opening up a shop around me. What they are charging.. I NEVER MAKE A DIME.. It takes all levels high, med and low to keep things in tune.. Good Luck To All.
  11. Bill Yox

    Bill Yox Well-Known Member

    Steven, thats just another justification. This thread isnt some of us telling the rest of you that you must raise prices. This is just what you wanted from the forums, taxidermists sharing ideas. Who says we are worried about what the other guy charges? I believe it was James who got this topic going and I can assure you that while it miffs him that guys are so willing to give away good work and then justify it by saying its where they live thats at fault, he makes a very good living and charges prices all of us would like...even the guys from poor areas, lol.

    No, we arent wasting our work time looking at some guys as low priced taxidermists. We are just stating facts about how much money lays on that table while others swear its not there. The best part is, as Ive said in countless other price topics threads in here, how I was so behind, so surrounded by other taxidermists in my area and yet still got $200 to $300 more per deerhead...yet there were some big outfits that are getting work out of MY area, and at even higher prices!!!! There truly IS room for all the price range, some just dont see it, and some others just wont ask to get it. Thankfully we all stay busy.
  12. jake7719

    jake7719 Well-Known Member

    Not on overhead, That is just part of the formula to determine your profit.

    Yes you can use overhead to adjust your profit so you have to pay less taxes. If you addjust your profit (legally) to keep you in a lower tax bracket you will pay less of a percent of taxes. I pay my self as an employee an hourly wage, I pay all the taxes as an employer and employee and write it off at tax time. This will show less profit and you will pay less taxes. If you are a LLC VS Sole proprietorship you will pay less in taxes.

    Price is determined by so many factors. Overhead, supply and demand,location,labor cost,compation,quality of product, taxes and others.

    No matter what product or service you sell the basics of business apply. Having a sound business plan is the key.

  13. timwilly

    timwilly I lost my agenda !!!

    All of you elitists are assuming I charge less than most as a part timer. less than some, I'm sure more than others. I have no problems getting four fifty for a basic shoulder mount and theres a taxidermist around every tree here doing them for alto less.
    I just did an otter on a simple base for seven. I'd do a wolf mount and base for eightteen and double my money on it. George your on my side of the fence as I feel you are a part timer and I never considered you an elitist. Theres expensive plumbers and cheap plumbers' lawyers, electricians. You put in whatever you want. I just feel that theres some pillars of the industry on here that people have looked up too that are loosing alto of respect talking down the little guy. I understand your argument, it's replayed on this site every few months, but it makes neither you right or the others wrong.
  14. Bill Yox

    Bill Yox Well-Known Member

    I dont get the elitist remark. Many guys simply ask for more for their work, so they get more. Theres very few who criticize those of you charging so little, just telling you how it can work.
  15. ANDY

    ANDY Well-Known Member

    Around here most of the part time taxi's just do deerhead's. The majority of them work under the table and claim nothing. It's all
    about extra cash money , it's not about the art of taxidermy. They have that" anybody can mount a deerhead" mentality.
  16. jake7719

    jake7719 Well-Known Member

    You can be a "low baller" and make just as much as the "professional". Low overhead. Some charge sales tax and don't report it. If you charge 6% you are making 12% more then the guy doing it the honest way. The "low Baller" is making some fat cash.

    If you are so blind that you can't see that then you can't be helped. They are stealing from you. Report them.

    If you have a "low Baller" in your area call the IRS, DNR, EPA, Dept. of Rev., Dept. of Welfare,and Dept of Labore and see how long they are in business.

    I would like to see our country go to a cashless economy. You would have to charge tax, pay employees up front and not under the table. This would leave the playing field for a lot of small businesses.
  17. Galen

    Galen 218-263-7177 www.EdgewaterTaxidermy.com

    When we bought our New place about 8 years ago now we had to put in a New Septic system. I called 3 different places after asking around to my friends as to who to call.

    I received three bids to all do the SAME job.

    The first was 7 grand the second was 10 grand the third was 12 Grand. Guess which one I went with . …

    I went with the guy that was charging 12 Grand . ....... Would the others of all worked the same . I do not know .. BUT when its 40 below out Plus Wind-chill :eek: :eek: :eek:

    I do NOT want to have to Crap in a Bucket and haul it out back in the woods..

    I want to KNOW that my BUTT can sit on a warm seat in the house and when I Flush it all goes out in to the septic tank and then out to the Expensive Mound system that had to put in ;D ;D

    . Like I say maybe the 7 grand system would still be working as well .

    I just don’t know . I guess I did not want to take the chance..

    ;D ;D ;D
  18. timwilly

    timwilly I lost my agenda !!!

    Bill, the Elitist remark comes from those thinking they are entitled to more than others because they have established themselves within an industry. I will never be able to mount a wolf as well as Dennis Harris, I will never be able to mount a deer as well as Bill Yox. With that being said It does not give me any less the right to make some money off the skills I do have. I can mount a descent specimen, most sportsmen that I know couldn't tell the difference between excellent taxidermy and poor if it was pointed out to them. A few known names jumped all over this thread because someone got there panties in a bunch either over losing some money or clients to someone charging less than them.

    Whether anyone wants to say it or not, this is an economy based profession. I did way more euros this past year at a hundred a pop than I did whitetails at four fifty. I don't consider myself a low baller but from some of the more established taxidermist I'm considered a hack because I don't charge $1000.00 for a whitetail shoulder mount. I just don't get it....I never saw an international standard anywhere for what I should be charging somebody. C'mon guys, we have maybe one fifty into a whitetail, 8 hours from start to finish.

    I don't have the answers for what people price their work out at and I'm sure others don't either. So beat it to death if you will and I'll keep doing what I do. I highly doubt the fifty or so mounts I do a year has ever taken money away from somebody that does five hundred a year.

    The real question is what determines a low baller? Someone less than a thousand a head? less than five hundred? Someone less than three hundred? Or just someone who's cheaper than you?
  19. Bill Yox

    Bill Yox Well-Known Member

    Timwilly, I think you got me confused with the bad guys. To me, a lowballer is a guy who will purposely undermine his competitors price just to get the job, using less than professional means.

    Heres a scenario... a local guy charging 350 for a deer head, pointed out to me that he took in twice as many heads as I did charging 810. He felt he was making twice the money I was, and I was missing the boat. I corrected him and said if he took in twice as many heads, he also had twice as many materials to buy, so that ratio wasnt all profit. Undeterred, he then countered how I still wasnt getting it, as he had some of my old customers because he was less than half my price. Again, I pointed out to him that I had customers he didnt have, paying my price, and that he had the customers that wouldnt. He couldnt see my point. I then asked him why he felt he got the ones he did, and I suggested first off it was because they liked his work, to which he agreed. He then added that it was because he was less than me, to which I agreed. Then I told him...but youre 350 and Im 810...if you charged 500 youd STILL get the guys who thought I was too much. Why leave that much on the table?

    As a taxidermist and a competitor to you other taxidermists in the business sense, Im glad you guys charge less, thats important to me. I want my business to look different, and to appeal to others. I hold no grudge. I dont TELL others what they should charge. But, as a member in these forums I DO like to point out that too many of you are charging numbers I havent seen since I was in my 20s, or basically, what I take as a deposit. Not to ridicule anyone, rather to help illustrate that the money IS there. It doesnt come all at once, I know. But as I say so often, you cant make taxidermy something it isnt, either.

    Nobody should feel that I, anyway, am telling you WHAT to charge. I AM, however, trying to show guys that you CAN charge it.
  20. gab

    gab Active Member

    so it would be ok to pay a single guy less than a married guy with kids even though they're doping the exact same job?