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NTA Financial update- FOR REAL

Discussion in 'The Taxidermy Industry' started by Harry Whitehead, Aug 9, 2013.


    BEAVERS New Member

    Maybe Crain bought a really good fax machine with that 10,000.....::)

    Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Ohub Campfire mobile app
  2. Harry, Many many many thanks to you and Fred . Hang in there. The Key board boys are still here. I STILL HAVE A TON OF PETITIONS IF YOU NEED THEM. ;)

    Your friend Gregg I

  3. George

    George The older I get, the better I was.

    Harry, it's truly a shame your brain isn't half as big as your mouth. You really don't want to drag me into this. You need to enjoy the accolades if others. If you have anything on the ball, you'll leave me out of this as I was before you dragged my name into this.
  4. Harry Whitehead

    Harry Whitehead I love to hunt Buffalos!!!!!

    Nice try George but you don't intimidate me in the slightest. You're the one that started this by saying "BUTT OUT" but in the end I'll be the one to finish it. You should have kept your comments to yourself just as you should keep you comments that you made to certain Board member recently to yourself. You can hide behind the "it's my NTA" slogan that you seem to throw around loosely but that doesn't work with me OR the others that you are trying to threaten. They're not intimidated either. Soon as I figure out what your motives are you will be exposed like the others. Just a matter of time.....
  5. margip

    margip Member

    What a load of horse sheite this has turned into. Someone must not be getting all the credit that "they think" they deserve.
  6. Crittercoroner

    Crittercoroner DUDE, your uselessness is epic!

    I'm wondering if it's more than just the Crane's that could be implicated in wrong doings. And no, no one go assuming I'm making any accusations, just wondering.
  7. Brian Reinertson

    Brian Reinertson Well-Known Member

    A whole summer of calm, but I have a feeling another another storm is coming soon... Still lots of wrinkles to iron out in this deal. Looks like I will hold out on the NTA for now.
  8. No surprise !
    No matter if its the cub scout den mothers are the us congress, its all the same. Bickering amongst them selves to no avail.
  9. George

    George The older I get, the better I was.

    Harry, if you're going to lie, at least get it close to being right. I made a post earlier about "Lone Rangers". I mentioned no names but as Momma always said," The bit dog howls first.". John Creager (your unnamed board member) PM'd me and asked specifically if I was talking about you and Fred. I admitted that's exactly who I was speaking of. Within 15 minutes, my phone had rung from both of you. I wasn't home but you both left messages. I called you back and was immediately asked what the hell I was talking about and why I had my nose in yourbusiness. I told you it wasn't YOUR buisness I was looking at. Then you told me that YOU had hired YOUR accountant to look at all the books. I told you I had a problem with that and I asked you why YOU were hiring anyone as it was now NTA business and the NTA should be hiring him. That was ALL that I said PERIOD. Immediately after that remark, you said, "F___ YOU! It's none of your f_____ing business." and you slammed the phone down. Not one time did I ever tell you to "butt out". I'll send you the tape if you'd like.

    I called Fred 3 times. Twice I got the answering machine. The third time I got his wife and she said he was busy. I thanked her and hung up. End of story.

    Now as far as MY business, I do have a problem, especially when an organization is in such a fragile state, that someone not sitting on the board is hiring people and ordering others to do certain things. When a president appoints anyone to do a job, the job is expected to be done by THAT INDIVIDUAL and any RECOMMENDATIONS comes back to the president for action. If he or she can't do the job, the the president should get someone to assist or hire someone to help. But I see the same old gremlins that led us down this path to begin with. Why would any group touting "transparency" not work within the confines of their bylaws? Why would directions be coming from board members for anything? Why would board members for little coffee klatches to talk about other board members?

    I've explained this in detail to John C. And he knows I wasn't happy that he took information and ran immediately to you two. But I'm not hiding anything. I wouldn't say anything I was afraid to defend and IF I'd been wrong, I'd have apologized for it. Now everyone can see where I was coming from. I just never mentioned it untill your pelican mouth started chirping. I never commented on this post until you got stupid and threw my name in there.

    Now you just keep crowing. You see I know a helluva lot more by accident than you do on purpose. Don't come here insinuating that I have anything to do with any improprieties in ANY FORM. It's a lie but if it makes you feel better, you just keep digging. Make sure the hole is deep enough to bury yourself in.
  10. George get it right or not say anything.

    I did not run to Harry nor did I run to Fred. YOu dont know half of whats going on, so you really need to stay out of this. You will get the information when its time.

    You said in a pm that two people I confide in ran to you after I talked to them. Well You lied!!!! You fricken LIED old man. I have talked with Mitch Webb and my wife of which neither have called you!

    I know why you have just attacked me, so does the rest of the active board members. Guess you got that today and are covering for someone.

    We the board keep having to work and put out these fires you start Mr. Roof. There are enough other problems without your constantly stirring the pot.
  11. George

    George The older I get, the better I was.

    John, You're the only person I commented to on this issue that fits what Harry said. I've never spoken to Mitch Webb. If it wasn't you, I apologize. Suddenly, however, you sound a bit ominous. Your comments don't set that well with me as far as "YOu dont know half of whats going on, so you really need to stay out of this. " In case you forgot, the NTA is a "public trust" organization and BOARD MEMBERS, as you've so eloquently stated several times in the past few months, WORK FOR THE MEMBERS. All of this IS OUR BUSINESS, you just happen to be sitting on the board of directors. For a "transparent" organization, I for one and as a family life member would like to know just what you DO know that you aren't telling us. And don't let my age concern you. It seems I'm still a tad smarter than you would like people to think.
  12. There is nothing to tell at this point, nothing you and everyone knows that the NTA and part of the board members are being sued. YOu and the people members or not will know what I know as soon as I have something to post.

    One thing I have figured out is this.

    Before any of the board members leave the next convention we will have number sand I am certainly going to work for a professional stenographer to record the minutes of the meeting, this way we can have a short meeting on Sunday morning and approve them.

    I also know that the executive session seem to hold a hidden value to many.

    I will tell you because the minutes of May 17, 2013 are approved, that we the board went into executive session and called the attorney to make sure we were doing the dismissal within the outlined contract (contract legal or not) ONce the Attorney said yes it was , we went into regular session and took a vote. 9 for dismissal, zero against and one abstaining.

    And yes we are moving forward on the 2014 show. you see the suggestions in the forum. Gathering (hopefully) prizes etc. but thats just normal goings on that has to be done before the end of the fiscal year.

    You can either be part of the cure or part of the problem, by continuing to stir the pot with only part of the information George you are just stirring the pot.
  13. michael p.

    michael p. Getting better with age :)

    So, does the NTA have any new sponsors? How's the supplier lineup next year? How much are the Crains asking for? How much is the NTA gonna settle for? Can you settle for $10.000 and spend $5,000 or are they going for $120,000 and it takes $20,000 to win or are we going to spend $25,000 to get a $15,000 settlement ??? You folks are talking about old scratches & wounds while the rest of us are ready to get back on our bikes.

    What will it take for the NTA to pedal forward John???

    Seriously, this lawsuit is not a 'personal' case when it comes to an organization, it's about every member. I have personal pride, but it's not my my money. What is the cheapest route for your stockholders to move forward beyond the last 10 year bull$$hit.......we're getting fed up with y'all arguing.........just saying.
  14. antlerman

    antlerman NTA Life Member #0118

    Ok, you want transparency?

    Back in January, I think it was, NTA President John Janelli asked George and Craig Lewis to take a look at the bylaws. No problem with that.

    Mr. John also asked Joe Kulis if he would act as interim ED when it became apparent that the board was going to fire Greg and Cindy Crain. Joe excepted. But it needs to be noted that it is an interim position ONLY.

    Then at the board meeting Fred presented his proposal for reorganization and Harry presented his proposal for getting the financials in order. The BOARD voted to except Fred and Harry's offers to help in the reorganization process and was made CHAIRMEN of both those adhok committees. As chairmen they do have the right to hire whomever the board approves. The BOARD approved the hiring of said CPA.

    Seems there are some problems coming from some who are not listening to the BOARD's directives.

    Although Joe was asked to act as interim ED, Harry has been assigned the task of CHAIRMAN of the Financial committee, BY THE BOARD.

    Some are NOT co-operating with these CHAIRMEN. As a result, Fred and Harry have stepped back momentarily until things get straightened out and all involved decide to work together, or once again we have rogue individuals trying to spearhead their own agenda's against the boards directives.

    JJ did ask for help from George, Joe, and many many others. HOWEVER, that was then and this is NOW.

    The BOARD is doing a fantastic job in the restructuring of the NTA.

    What do ya say we stop the hairsplitting, the back biting and allow the process time to work.

    In Fred and Harry's proposals, they asked for a time period of 15 months inwhich they would provide their help to the NTA BOARD. After such time, they will step aside and the BOARD will then be able to proceed as all the reorganization work will be completed by then.

    To refuse to work with these men is a direct refusal to follow the BOARDs DIRECTIVES.

    If that's the way we are going to play, then why have a board? Why vote on anything?

    George and Harry...........I consider myself friends with both of you and have great respect for both of you....HOWEVER.......it is no mystery that you two hate each other. That's fine and I'm sure both of you have your reasons.......but would you PLEASE keep your personal fight private and work together at this time for the betterment of the NTA for it's members?

    You both claim an undying love for the NTA.

    Prove it by using your strengths in a positive way to help rebuilt our organization. Thats what the board has asked and thats what the members deserve. And stop being road blocks to others efforts when those efforts are direct BOARD directives.

    Some may not like the power per se that the board has given Fred and Harry, but it is the BOARDS decision to do that. But one needs to understand that BOTH of those committee's are made up of BOARD MEMBERS. The BOARD has their collective fingers on the pulse of what these committees are doing. It's NOT Fred and Harry running rogue. THE BOARD IS DRIVING THIS BUS. Please, lets ALL let them do their job that they were elected to do. MUCH is currently at stake and it will take time to work through it all, but all this negative bullchit is doing nothing but making people think it's the same old NTA. In some ways it is, but only because some of you haven't come to realize that it is the BOARD that is running things NOW. Not ANY one individual, not any interim ED, not any committee chairmen.

    No wonder no-one knows how to act. We are not accustom to a board that gets things done for it's members. But THIS BOARD is. Whatcha say we let them continue going forward.

    Obviously THEY (the board) collectively felt they wanted and needed Fred and Harry's help or they would not have voted to allow them to be put in the positions they have been put. If you have a problem with THAT, you need to take it up with the board at the NEXT board meeting.

    I sincerely mean it when I say that the NTA was meant to be for EVERYONE. I sincerely believe it was initially intended to be that way. Then along came personal agenda's that destroyed any hope or respect people had for it. There is NO room for personal agenda's at this time. I trust the board to take all necessary measures to ensure that NEVER happens again.

    This is just the way I see it from where I'm sitting.
  15. 3bears

    3bears Well-Known Member

    Well said antlerman. It is now time to put the personal BS aside and concentrate on rebuilding the NTA. We, as in past, present and future members {?} are watching.
  16. michael p.

    michael p. Getting better with age :)

    They never will, it's a habit.
  17. Harry Whitehead

    Harry Whitehead I love to hunt Buffalos!!!!!

    George, you ARE a liar! PERIOD! When I called you after reading your post I asked specifically if that post was aimed at Fred and I? You responded with "damn right it was"! You are a liar that tries to bend the truth in your favor! Also, I can hire anybody I want to hire. I'm the one paying for it to this date. Are you so stupid that you think you can tell me what I can and cannot do personally??

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  18. Harry Whitehead

    Harry Whitehead I love to hunt Buffalos!!!!!

    Sorry antlerman, I agree that some conversations should be held privately but I'm not gonna just stand here and take it when I'm doing the job that I have been charged with BY THE BOARD and some jealous prick wants to undermine everything that is going on because of his own personal agenda. Simply because he is not "in the know" with everything that is going on he wants to stir the pot and cause turmoil. It is impossible to keep everyone informed with every little piece of information each and every day! There is not another Board in the country that operates like that. It's just not feasible. If you want to know what is going on George you need to come to the Winter Board meeting and ask your questions instead of getting on the net and telling lies to try and get your information that you so desperately need.

    BTW I just talked to Denise, Fred's wife, and she said that she has never talked to you. Also, Fred checks his answering machine everyday and there have been NO messages coming from you. Therefore you are a LIAR!!

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  19. EA

    EA Well-Known Member

    Very Well Said Tim and couldn't agree more. I know you were an officer with your organization as was I. I've sat on many boards and continue to do so. Been in knock down, drag out meetings that were a breath away from fist flying. BUT AFTER THE VOTE and BEFORE WE LEFT THAT ROOM we were a unified front. THAT is what you present to your members.

    You will never grow your organization spouting negative public attacks. It's positive or nothing at all. There is a time and a place and I doubt this is it. Don't get me wrong, it's an interesting read for non-members, but It's a shame to see 3 steps back after all the hard work that went into going 2 forward.

    I sat on one board that was real interesting. Our Trial Board, and we fined people who were working to the detriment of our organization. A few will pay $5000 before they can receive their pensions. I wouldn't hesitate to put penalties in your ByLaws addressing this subject.

    But as I said before, I'm not a member, so it matters not to me. Current Events was getting boring anyway.
  20. Michael, we received the papers by registered mail on Saturday.

    I do know there were suppliers picking booths at the BR Show. As for as new sponsors I dont know.

    I do know my wife and I will proceed to work on getting sponsors for the Springdale show, and we have already been to Springdale to scout things for the kids to do. Ice skating, swimming and more just a few blocks away. We will work on maybe getting a day of floating on a class I river at Noel Missouri ( right now the outfitters are flooded really weird for August)

    Wife and I are trying to find sponsors for a Wednesday night opening BBQ. You can also look at the other post I started to get some of your answers, many of us are trying to move forward but have to get it done before the end of the fiscal year, as business schedule their budgets for advertising etc.

    I find it very funny that the 990s (tax forms) show that board members work about 3 hours per week for the NTA, hell I have about 3 hours a day thats not NTA business. I bought a second cell phone for NTA business so I can text, check email and more while away from home.

    Its all good as most of the board, lets call them the active board members are working to move forward and we talk most days once or twice of three times. But these are not official calls, just calls among the boards active members, talking direction etc.