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Garment Tanning?

Discussion in 'Tanning' started by hybrid, Jun 8, 2007.

  1. msbraintan

    msbraintan New Member

    what've ya braintanned Cyclone, like 2 skins or something? Sorry.. don't mean to be rude but I was hoping to hear the legitimate or supposedly legit complaint about the braintan and why the old timer's like George or Old Terry think that braintan's not worth theirs or possibly anyone elses time or effort perhaps? I've sure put a lot of time into it, I can assure you. I didn't just take it up. Would like to hear what it is about the method that bothers 'em to speak out about it.
     
  2. George

    George The older I get, the better I was.

    Msbraintan, did someone crank up your PMS cycle and do wheelies all over the kitchen or what? I didn't say braintan was "stupid" and I never said it would fall apart. NOW LISTEN VERY CAREFULLY. What I did say was that garment maker TODAY use chrome tanning to a great degree fro longevity. With the advent of the industrial revolution, brain tanning was no longer a viable option as it is VERY VERY TIME C"ONSUMING AND LABOR INTENSIVE. Got that? You may not use lye, but from my Cherokee background, I know that firewood ashes were used because of their similar reaction so that hair could be scraped off. I also recall uric acid in it's uncontained depository being applied to the hide and the hides being chewed to make them more supple. I can see that being a classic kindergarten discussion but I suppose you'd skip that step in answering their questions. What I DID SAY was that brain tanning is NOT A TAXIDERMY PROCESS. Got that, too? Now if you want to play pioneer wannabe, that's fine with me. My work is also labor intensive and it's hard to make a decent living at it using modern techniques. I certainly would never consider using YOUR METHOD in my work. And as I count it now, you owe THREE apologies to us on this site. With your attitude, it seems you've been chewing too many of those hides already.
     

  3. msbraintan

    msbraintan New Member

    LOL.. whatever.. thank you for your valuable time. Sorry to those whose tender feelings I may have tread on.
     
  4. Bill Yox

    Bill Yox Well-Known Member

    ...and the mod and George should tell...what? I didnt say either way. Reading comprehension lacks in these parts lately! Hell, what do I care how you guys tan it, as long as mines done to my specs. If I were wanting to traditionally tan some stuff, yeah I might try it. Otherwise, for garments Id heed Georges advice, and my feelings sure wouldnt be hurt. How funny it is when some of us say things, others wimper, but when others say the same, we are the wimps...lol.
     
  5. cyclone

    cyclone Posts: 400001


    My turn! My turn!

    As a matter of fact, MS, I have just started this year so perhaps I'm not the expert to be defending the method.

    I used wood ashes for a bucking solution since I tried the dry scrape method once and it didn't suit my schedule. Perhaps I even cheated a bit more with a little KOH. Wet scraping is much, much easier than dry although probably less traditional.

    If I'm not mistaken, I read a post thread here somewhere in that someone was using a power-washer to flesh, dehair and grain? Must of slipped someone's mind... hardly traditional. Rudeness intended...BTW..

    Before you do all this chest thumping about expertism....think about this...
    How much of the chemistry of what your're doing can you explain?

    Oldtimers, you might as well lump me into that category as well..pup...
    Now you best run back under the porch with the other pup...
     
  6. oldterryr

    oldterryr Terry's in Heaven with no worries at all.

    i said it was stupid not 'foul mouthed' george i love that gasoline ass comment - gotta think of a way to work it into my vocabulary) - anytime you take a step backwards in time to make something that is realtively easy hard it fits my description of stupid - are we clear now cyclone (darn there was the chance to use the GA adjective when describing you)
     
  7. cyclone

    cyclone Posts: 400001

    Note quite, you're just digging a deeper hole..

    I'd use words like Heritage, Lore, and Tradition.. to describe brain tanning. I, for instance, am an avid bowhunter and black power hunter. I've even toyed around with the idea of putting away the compound and taking up the longbow. Perhaps I'll even make my own bow some day. I'm bucking hides and plan on using them rather than just tossing them over the bank.

    There are much, much easier ways to hunt but I choose to "take a step backwards".

    You need to rethink and restate your definition.
     
  8. msbraintan

    msbraintan New Member

    Well Cyclone,

    Now we're getting somewhere, if you ask me. I'm kind of inclined to agree with Oldterryr here.. you see I am beginning to draw the conclusion on this thread that-
    1. braintanning as most of us know it, is quite possibly a stupid thing to do.. and
    2. some braintanners ARE stupid.

    So, to be quite frank with you I've been at this for around 4 years now and I've braintanned a few furs as well..There's a lot of braintan experts out there, you'll have to trust me on that.. I know. Tell me this Cyclone, if you are so smart, how would you ever soften a fur skin by braintanning it if all you knew about braintanning was making buckskin using lye? Just doesn't make any sense.. how about the elkskin tanning? did you get to that part yet? grain the hide then buck?? hahahha.. there's a little too much conflicting non-sense for me, anymore.. I would much prefer a step 'forwards in time'. Why in the world would I want to play pioneer woman??

    Power washing with the skins is just plain 'cool beans', but there aren't any books and video's/cd's on HOW-TO, so I'm not at all surprised that folks like you and Cyclone there, obviously don't get it..Obvious that what both of you got your information from some books you read. My daddy told me a long time ago not to believe everything I read. I see you guys do.. indians chewing hides and buckskin furs..teeheeheee.. you guys are too funny. I personally don't care how anyone else is tanning, I just jumped in here to see what the gripe really was about braintan, if any.. longevity? ::) If it lasts 20 years, that's fine with me. Oh, and the only thing 'non-tradish' about washers is the gas and oil they use and I AM addicted to it allready. 'Typical American', what can I say? Maybe when I get George's age I can get an electric start washer?? I do hate pulling the cords on these gas driven things. Happy Tanning ya'll.
     
  9. cyclone

    cyclone Posts: 400001

    I will agree with your statement #2...as for the rest of what you pecked out:

    incoherent.
    Main Entry: in·co·her·ent
    Pronunciation: -&nt
    Function: adjective
    : lacking coherence: as a : lacking cohesion : LOOSE b : lacking orderly continuity, arrangement, or relevance : INCONSISTENT <an incoherent essay> c : lacking normal clarity or intelligibility in speech or thought .

    and for the power washing, if that floats your boat then fine. But someone here took the same attitude over to the braintan forum and was spanked over there for non-traditional thinking..

    Maybe your hides will only last 20 years, but I expect to get much longer service out of mine.


    Your IQ, rather the lack of it, is showing..
     
  10. George

    George The older I get, the better I was.

    You probably won't get to reach my age. In fact, I'm a bit surprised that I reached to be my age. But though some of your father's advice may have been good, that statement , when followed, insures that you'll always be stupid. None of us would be able to utter a word had we not had some tool for learning, READING being the prime one. And if you think Indians didn't piss on hides and squaws chewed them, then you REALLY should read a few books. (And just so you know, I was TOLD that before I ever read it anywhere). And while you're reading, check the archives on how dumb Cyclone is dealing with chemistry and how it effects ALL OF US, even guys playing with dead animals and digging our their brains.
     
  11. Bill Yox

    Bill Yox Well-Known Member

    Lets wrap this one up to foolishness and move on. A few participants insist on turning what might have been a salvaged informative thread into a very foolish childish waste of space. Take my hint...
     
  12. I liked that too gasoline ass, George pay attention to detail.
     
  13. RainWarrior

    RainWarrior Member

    There is nothing softer than my brain tanned buckskin and nothing to be prouder of when I can tell people that I can make my own leather it is in every way just as thck and durable when tanned this way. Alot of taxidermists don't brain tan because brain tanning is not what you want to mount with. It is very primative... Unless you have a lot of time to get the tactics down then you don't want to mess with it. You can brain tan with hair left on and it wont rot as george stated and it wont smell bad If you need any help please pm me and i would be glad to guide you through it. But remember fellow taxidermists the brain tanning is where our jobs as tanners and preservists started way back in the day so don't get too messy its like getting upset at someone for wanting to use a recurve instead of a compound bow. Its all in the same line.
     
  14. George

    George The older I get, the better I was.

    I'm really trying to understand what you've said and I must be missing something someplace. I said that a brain tanned hide would rot??? You might want to go back and reread EXACTLY what I wrote there. I'm part Cherokee and do know a few things other than modern ways. I also KNOW that braintanning, though soft and supple, will NEVER match quality chrome tanned leather that's been "split" simply because of the breaking process and the universal and consistent thickness of the hide throughout the skin. The very best dress gloves and driving gloves are make from split buckskin or the skin of sheep and goats.
     
  15. RainWarrior

    RainWarrior Member

    I am ALSO Cherokee my friend.
     
  16. RainWarrior

    RainWarrior Member

    George I agreed with you 100% that it is not what you want to mount animals with as the chrome tanning is a lot more up to date and superior but for clothing it is a reasonable option.
     
  17. Bill Yox

    Bill Yox Well-Known Member

    Sounds like both tribes have this debate in the bag! I just relaized, this is an old post!
     
  18. cyclone

    cyclone Posts: 400001

    I'm interested in your method for "hair on". I am a student of the Matt Richards method (I have his book and have done hair off), but am most interested in your teachings as well..

    PM would be fine, but we might want to start a new topic as it would be quite interesting..