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NTA censorship??? REALLY???

Discussion in 'The Taxidermy Industry' started by antlerman, May 12, 2014.

  1. antlerman

    antlerman NTA Life Member #0118

    John Janelli NTA President (You know the one who communicated with us all and gave the NTA back to us, and also the last president we ever heard from) Made a very heart felt post from he and Carol that has been removed. Why would John Creager want said post removed? Why does Creager know what happened at said mediation meeting, but we as members are not allowed to know? Why would anyone trust the NTA now? Where's our money Mitch? How much did it cost to buy off the Crains? Or does the Crains own the NTA again?? Or does Mitch Webb? No information to share and yet when someone who has given his life to the NTA gets censored?? Why Ken?

    Things are starting to smell really really bad.

    I also read where Creager is working on a proposal to present to the board whereas, some college is offering to print the OUTLOOK magazine for cost. LOL Must I remind everyone that you get what you pay for. What most probably don't realize is that Rick and Nikkie Carter who are well known to this industry were all set and ready to go with editing and printing the Outlook magazine which would have rivaled perhaps any of our finest available to us today. But evidently, once again the NTA couldn't get their act together and the Carters were lost. Great leadership decision making there for sure. I get enough junk mail already, don't need any more. Whose gonna edit this? Someone's volunteer wife? Seems the whole show is being ran by appointments and volunteers.

    Now I do understand that allegedly the NTA is broke. How can that be? Where's the money? Archie Phillips made a motion that all NTA monies be released even from TERF and the Morgan Stanley accounts to be used as needed. Motion passed allegedly. So why can't we have people we know and trust handling out industry publication? Beats the chit out of me.

    So how much monies have been extracted from TERF and Morgan Stanley?? Do I need to call Sister Jones or Hillery Clinton or the Pope? Can't seem to find THAT information anywhere.

    Of course.........no-one is telling anything. It's ALL a BIG BIG secret.

    Unless you were appointed by the appointed board, you ain't allowed to know anything.

    Is this starting to sound like DEJA-VUE all over again??

    It is to me. So WHO owns the NTA NOW??? Obviously NOT the membership, just like before.

    So ya want to censer all post about the NTA?

    Knock yourself out. I guess it's a coveted topic now days.

    Shame Shame. What a shame it is to see the NTA flushed down the toilet.

    I ASSUME THE CRAIN'S WALKED AWAY WITH EVERYTHING. No-one has anything to say to contradict it so it must be so.

    The CRAIN"S WON! Archie's motion put all the money in the Crain's pockets.
  2. pir^2h

    pir^2h Retrievers give you the bird

    So much for the "New NTA" transparency promises! About as transparent as the steel vault doors of a bank.

  3. antlerman

    antlerman NTA Life Member #0118

    Perhaps we aren't told anything because no-one wants it know yet that the name on the contracts changed from Crain to Webb. Humm...makes a person wonder now doesn't it?

    Here's the point in case anyone is wondering. In the state of Louisiana, where the Articles of Incorporation are held, and where said mediation took place............a 501c6 such as the NTA is bound by LAW to full disclosure. There can NOT be any secrets..........yet..........here we are. Get it??
  4. Brian Reinertson

    Brian Reinertson Well-Known Member

    I'm glad I got to read Johns post before it was taken off, very sincere. I'm also glad I never joined the NTA. The UTA is my representative and I'm proud of that.
  5. Huggs

    Huggs Member

    Antlerman if you were running the show and the judge said that all things discussed in court was not to be disclosed outside of the courtroom what would you tell the membership? Most times in settlements like this that is what is said. I would like to know as well but I'm not an officer or board member so I'll just live with it and hope things change for the good. It does no good to keep getting on everyone (or hasn't yet) about it. Remember they were in court in Louisiana where the Crain's wanted it so anything could have happened.
  6. michael p.

    michael p. Getting better with age :)

    Same old song & dance, guess I'm tired of being hoodwinked..... secret settlement of a NON PROFIT organization, members no NOTHING about where THEIR MONEY WENT AND HOW MUCH WAS PAID! Where the hell is the president atleast addressing this to the 1,000's of taxidermists looking to join an association..... well I did get fooled twice.

    Fred & Harry were 110% right when they did what they did, work your ass off so your fight for transparency becomes 'secret'..... damn I hope they don't crack a rib laughing!

    Fire them on a basis, pay them off..... members, you don't need to know.......lets roll down that lost highway.... so glad I quit when I did, I'm only half as embarrassed.
  7. antlerman

    antlerman NTA Life Member #0118


    I guess you don't get it. NO JUDGE can order something that is against LAW!!!
  8. James Parrish

    James Parrish Tundra Swan...Its What's For Dinner!

    I just love hearing from the guys who went to the taxidermy.net school of law. Non-profits enter into confidential agreements/settlements all the time. The pastor at the church I used attend fired at least one or two staff members a year. With each firing came a little "non-disclosure" money and a NDA. At that point, the organization can claim it is a personnel matter and thus not have to disclose all the details. Governments (state, local, federal), which have "sunshine laws" in place, often settle employment suits with NDAs attached. They can keep them secret, again by citing personnel laws.

    The problem lies in the fact that most taxidermists that have the least bit of knowledge about the NTA's recent events don't trust anybody in leadership. With that fact in mind, the NTA should have refused any settlement with a NDA attached. It would have been the better option for transparency sake.

    I had planned on joining the NTA once the Crains were removed, but I decided to wait and see how the pieces were picked up. I guess now I know. It really seems that only the names have changed....everything else has stayed the same.
  9. michael p.

    michael p. Getting better with age :)

    'The problem lies in the fact that most taxidermists that have the least bit of knowledge about the NTA's recent events don't trust anybody in leadership. With that fact in mind, the NTA should have refused any settlement with a NDA attached. It would have been the better option for transparency sake. '

    That right there in a nutshell is the best way to describe it.....it was NOT a judges ORDER, it was arbitration..... for gosh sakes hold out for FULL disclosure.

    Thank you James... and if I were a member of that church it would not get a dime again.... tell the damn people who in good faith are giving you money where it went. I do not pull 60-80 hour weeks to be told 'its settled, you don't need to know' after busting ass to raise that money!
  10. James Parrish

    James Parrish Tundra Swan...Its What's For Dinner!

    The church didn't start out that way. Much like the NTA, it was started by good people who had the best of intentions. Over the years, the pastor and his wife got full control of everything and now it is very much like the NTA was under the Crains. Needless to say, I've found a new church.

    The contents of the settlement will most likely be written in the form of a court order. My in-laws separated recently. They had a mediation held by their respective lawyers and a third "neutral" lawyer. Once they had fleshed out who gets what and who pays who what, etc. they both signed the agreement. It was then presented to a judge for his signature to make it a court order. So, if either of them violate the terms they agreed to, they will be held in contempt of court....not for breach of contract but for failure to comply with a court order. I'm sure it works about the same way in Louisiana.

    In defense of the NTA and those individuals involved in the proceedings, they probably took their lawyer's advice in the settlement. The officers were likely facing the threat of a suit against the organization and against themselves as individuals. In other words, their fortunes were likely on the line. I'm not saying I would have done differently. I wouldn't risk losing my business, bank account, house, etc. over "saving" the NTA. I'm sure you all would do the same. The sad part is that in "saving" themselves they have caused even more harm and distrust of the organization. It was really a lose/lose proposition given the circumstances. Had the NTA and its officers had substantial financial backing, the outcome could have been different. They could have chosen to fight but without that "safety net" there was simply too much risk to them individually.

    At this point, I believe the hope of a fully transparent, thriving NTA is all but lost. Miracles do happen, but in this case too many of us are too wary to step in and support the NTA. I don't believe the NTA will fold altogether, but it will be a shell of what it once was and what it could have been again. I believe the future is not with the NTA but rather with the UTA. If history has taught us anything, we must prevent the UTA from going the way of the NTA. Like my old church, it is often too late to see what is happening until it is too late to do anything about it. "We" waited too long to remove the Crains and it has all but destroyed the NTA. Should the old church remove the pastor, I have no doubt that it would destroy it as well. My best advice for preventing this in the future is to keep any one individual or group of individuals from getting too much power. Things like term limits, wait times between serving in any elected/appointed roles, full yearly audits, etc. will help.

    My thanks to those who stood up to the Crains. I'm just sorry it was too late to make a difference.
  11. antlerman

    antlerman NTA Life Member #0118

    Ok...........my phone finally rang. LOL

    The problem lies in the fact that most taxidermists that have the least bit of knowledge about the NTA's recent events don't trust anybody in leadership. With that fact in mind, the NTA should have refused any settlement with a NDA attached. It would have been the better option for transparency sake.

    I agree.

    Now for the reasons JJ's post was removed. One could ASSUME that all was over with by that post. It's not over with. A verbal agreement was entered into. That however leaves a lot of open doors yet. No paperwork has been signed yet by either side. No judges order has been issued yet. No checks have been cut. It's all still very much in the air yet, contingent on everyone signing and a judgement entered, settlement made and etc. The gag order is coming from the NTA's attorney. He doesn't want anything said until signed and delivered. Understandable. JJ's post was evidently premature. I have been promised that once it is in fact over, a full disclosure will be posted for all to see. We will wait and see. Why someone can't/won't address that is beyond me, but that is what I have been told anyway at this point. It is NOT settled yet. Seems it would have been so easy to say that, but I guess the gag the lawyers have placed is restricting the blood flow quite a bit.
  12. James Parrish

    James Parrish Tundra Swan...Its What's For Dinner!

    Well if the NTA attorney is recommending a gag order, that is a different story. Mitch Webb is the president and he answers to the members of the organization, not to the attorney. Personally, I feel that something of the "potential" magnitude of this settlement should be presented to the members for an up or down vote. We're talking about the future of the organization hanging by a thin thread. No settlement will please everyone, but at least with a vote the members would feel like they are at the very least part of what could make or break the organization. Even if the settlement is undesirable but is affirmed by the majority, I believe that the organization can move forward and build itself upon its willingness to be open and have the members make their voices heard.
  13. Kerby Ross

    Kerby Ross KSU - Class of '83; U.S. Army - Infantry (83-92)


    So the Crains are getting paid off?


  14. antlerman

    antlerman NTA Life Member #0118

    Settlement particulars were not disclosed to me, but I got the impression that a workable solution was verbally agreed upon by both sides. If you recall, the Crains were suing for past monies owed. I can't remember that exact amount, but I understand that number was chopped immensely. So much so that those involved agreed to the settlement. I was only told that it was an affordable amount. I asked and was told that the TERF and Morgan Stanley funds would not have to be touched.

    So, under the circumstances, I think the NTA feels as though they are setting in a pretty good position right now and simply don't want to say or do anything to change that. So, the wait continues.
  15. As a board member for a non-profit and manager of charitable gambling for that non-profit, I cannot imagine how much the members, city, state, and regulatory agencies would be breathing down our necks if we were not 100% transparent about every $ or refused to disclose anything. I understand the thing about severance, ext.. when people are fired, but usually even that stuff is disclosed. If not the amount, at least the fact that moneys were paid for that are disclosed. I have seen that happen for employees at public schools and municipalities when they were let go or some sort of agreement was made and all the info was published in the newspaper.
    That said I am a UTA member and was considering joining the NTA next year (since I can't attend the show this summer), but now I think I will wait and see. Just like a church with questionable practices or values, I wouldn't want to contribute $ to something that's supposed to be a non profit if its mission and use of moneys are in question and not transparent. Unfortunately I have no choice in continuing to pay the IRS, lol.
  16. michael p.

    michael p. Getting better with age :)

    I disagree 100%! I am the VP of a local non-profit. For YEARS it was sinking in funds & membership, we put forth a transparent plan, got the members 're-involved' and we are looking at 300% more financial equity than 2 years ago. This is not a union where you look out for your 'brothers', it is not a private business negotiating, it is a board with 'appointed' members representing a 1,000 members who are being told you're covered in cow $hit and you will be a mushroom come convention time.

    Go win your 'National Championship' and hang that $hit on your wall, look at it and realize who you didn't have to compete against due to self entitlement..... wear it proud.
  17. As for the National Championship thing, just don't tell the local newspapers that you were the only blue ribbon winner in the category, lol. That's my only UTA gripe. I wish they would put UTA National Champion on the Best of Category ribbons since it is a national show, I think. Maybe I'll just write it on mine with a sharpie and hope nobody questions it, lol
  18. EA

    EA Well-Known Member

    I deleted my post because it's not really my fight and I don't know all the history.

    I will say, I do think they got good advice. Thats why you hire representation. You trust they have the organizations best interests in mind.
    There's a time and place, this ain't it. You are correct, the members deserve the complete story/truth and I hope you get it, but IMO you don't throw your trash in the street. It's none of my business, tho I'd love to know. Thats what meetings are for.
  19. michael p.

    michael p. Getting better with age :)

    EA, I respect the hell out of you & your posts.... do NOT delete a damn thing..... I've had to hire representation before (remember the 'non payment of dues' to kick me out after I complained straight to Crain about Phillips shoving his tongue down a hotel employes throat at the Pennsylvania show?) & all I wanted was the TRUTH! Can you imagine walking through a convention though telling your guests & vendors 'we fired them for due cause, paid them an amount I can't tell you about, but give us your money & trust us in the future'...... the whole GD issue from the beginning was based on lack of transparency & you try to rebuild your home on a cracked slab.... REALLY.... no foundation will see this bitch crumble.

    I do not care if every penny was spent , a non disclosure kills it & tarnishes anything in the future. That's all there is to it !
  20. EA

    EA Well-Known Member

    I agree with everything you said Mike. No Non Disclosure BS. You guys all deserve the truth after this nightmare. But I wouldn't let any info out on the web until it's all tied up in a nice bow. Or handcuffs LOL.