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So where is the money.....???

Discussion in 'The Taxidermy Industry' started by michael p., Jul 17, 2014.

  1. lonewolf1330

    lonewolf1330 Member

    joey its going to Gatlinburg TN in 2015
  2. antlerman

    antlerman NTA Life Member #0118

    if you were at the board meeting you would know what was discussed. There was talk about a show west of the rockies, because it has been requested. a show in the north east as well. Yes it was talked about concerning the union states and I understand it is the vendors that have an issue with it moreso than the NTA. I also understand that the NTA is working currently with a company named John Q. Harmon properties or something like that, who owns venues all around the country that are conducive for our needs, and at a price that makes working with them pretty enticing. Things also have a lot to do with other issues. Take for example; I think they are working on a contract for Gatlinburg, Tenn., but one of the issues was parking. Was going to cost 20.00 a day for parking, but then the city of Gatlinberg picked up the tab so that parking would be free. There seems to be more to picking a venue than just putting your finger on the map and saying let's do it here. Since you seem so versed in doing this, I'm sure the board would love to have you help them. They are looking for a few good men.
    This years convention was already contracted to be in Arkansas, by the Crains. The negotiations with Gatlinberg happened when they were one of the few who responded and showed up at the winter board meeting to present their desires for the NTA to come there, is I think what was said about that. But again, get on the board and have a hand in it, and do things the way you think they should be done. There is no question that you would win a seat.
    Brian, I would love for the show to be in the middle of the US every year. Would make it pretty much in my backyard. But would that be fair?

    There was also talk about Texas. I think that too is in their minds for the future. So from what I gathered from that is they do want to move the show around to all interested states. Texas showed a strong contingency of members who came to this years show. Hell yes their voice was heard. But I also overheard someone talking that the Texas Assoc doesn't want the NTA to come there. So working with the state associations is also a part that plays in this I suppose. I have never done it, so I don't know all that goes into those decisions. But one thing you have to remember is; the Crains are gone and the south thing is not still what is on the agenda. There is also another thing that I know that comes into play. Some states, such as Illinois (my state) billed the NTA 1500.00 when the convention was in Springfield Illinois for the use of their backboards. Some states help out for free and THANKFUL to have the NTA convention in their state, but some despise it.

    Time will tell where the NTA goes from here. I not once said everyone was Kumbaya and that there wasn't some very heated debates. Yes, there was, but I'm not going there. At the end of the day, a resolve was reached simply because a resolution could not be reached. And if you think you have a resolution that would better have served the members, then you should have been there. Personally, as much as I didn't like it, there was nowhere else to go with any of it. It was unprovable EITHER WAY.

    "Do NOT have a settlement with the 2 crooks you fired & then say 'its confidential what we did with your money'". Then ask Janelli to tell you. I can not ask him to risk loosing everything he owns for breaching the contract that he signed. Nor could I ask the same of Mitch. But if you can, knock yourself out. Should they have not signed it and agreed to the terms?? I begged John and Carol to not sign it, but they did, so go ask them. Especially since the only people who held the evidence to pursue the Crain's was Fred and Harry.....and God knows we can't trust them to have the best interest of the NTA in mind. Remember, all they are wanting to do is extort the NTA as some have said. Give me a [expletive deleted]ing break. You can't have it both ways. And, if you want to know why the NTA didn't have the evidence, you need to go ask the past president that also. And while youre at it, ask him why he is trying to get SCI to remove their support of the NTA.

    PS to JJ. I begged and begged you to call me before I went to said board meeting and you have ignored me for over a month now. No need to bother calling me now. I know what you are up to friend. How could you attempt to do the things you are trying to do when you have said that your heart belongs to the NTA. REALLY JOHN? Really? Michael told you to tell me to go [expletive deleted] myself. Well, I guess you did, loud and clear.

    I witnessed Harry lay down his sword for the good of the NTA only to hear first hand what you are doing to try to kill the NTA. You should truly be ashamed. I feel so deceived by the very person who I have backed wholeheartedly. Yes, there is a new NTA. One that doesn't have you working against it's well being any longer. I always knew there was an enemy in the camp, but I never wanted to believe it was you. Let's face it John. All the NTA has EVER meant to you was what you could weasel from it. Disgraceful John. Totally disgraceful. Maybe you and the Crain's can start a new gig, cause this one is over for you. So why did you sign away the NTA monies to the Crain's?? Only because you hate Fred and Harry so badly, or is there more to your plot? I think you know that I know the answer now John, and the TRUTH. So maybe you need to tell Michael, and George, and all the rest what you have REALLY been up to. I'm sure they would love to know. But I'm not going to tell them. It was YOU who declared transparency for the NTA. Now it needs to be YOU that is transparent towards the NTA membership, or simply just go away. The choice is yours.

  3. joeym

    joeym Jeannette & Joey @ Dunn's Falls

    Gatlinburg will be great!...but, as said, you better get there on Monday if you want a parking place on Wednesday...and the only place to drive on Saturday is out of town, since traffic is backed up for miles in all directions trying to get in town. That said, the convention center there is great, and there is plenty to do within a short walking distance of it. We hope we can make that one, and look forward to it!
  4. michael p.

    michael p. Getting better with age :)

    Yep, that's the solution... blame Janelli. Always gotta have that scape goat.

    Nothing changes......
  5. joeym

    joeym Jeannette & Joey @ Dunn's Falls

    I would wager a very large amount that JJ NEVER took any funds from the NTA for personal use. He would not even accept a personal donation from me to offset his expenses to the SCI when NTAHQ canned his credit card.
  6. antlerman

    antlerman NTA Life Member #0118

    I never said that he did. But try to pull supporters from the NTA............YES.....That he did do. And thats all I'm going to say about it. If you want to know WHY he did, you need to ask him that.
  7. michael p.

    michael p. Getting better with age :)

    How many supporters you think they pulled away from the NTA when they allowed Archie to assault that lady!

    As I said, it'll never change, they'll just keep blaming somebody else.
  8. antlerman

    antlerman NTA Life Member #0118


    You have to blame the culprits, do you not? . And there is an election that is getting ready to take place, so lets take care of the Archie situation the only way we can. NO-ONE ALLOWED ARCHIE to ASSAULT that LADY. He did that without anyone's permission.
  9. antlerman

    antlerman NTA Life Member #0118

    As I said, it'll never change, they'll just keep blaming somebody else.

    Then get busy about getting yourself on the board so that there is no-one to blame but yourself if your not happy about the way things were handled. That is what I intend to do, because I'm tired of all the incompetency I have seen in the past. It's called Putting your money where your mouth is; and I'm now ready to do just that. Hope you are too.
  10. michael p.

    michael p. Getting better with age :)

    Sorry dude, I've been lied to too many times.
  11. RichMO

    RichMO Well-Known Member

    X2 Tim
  12. ortegageno

    ortegageno Active Member

    This shet is way deeper than iv imagined. It just gets worse by the day.
  13. George

    George The older I get, the better I was.

    Tim, I'm sorry to hear that you got your windows tinted. I didn't just fall off the onion truck and I feared that you were getting too close to the candle with this one. It's one helluva job to remain completely objective when you're constantly schmoozing with a problem area. Like Michael said, I've been lied to enough over the last decade to write Hillary Clinton's book. If I changed the names on your posting to the people involved 10 years ago, you'd swear it was a rerun of "As The World Turns".

    I've told Mitch twice and I won't bother telling him again. His excuses for not being open, out front and ON THIS FORUM are pure, unadulterated bull$shit. This ain't Congress. This is an organization whose foundation is supported by the funds of the membership. Even though he was never elected, he serves in a position with an OBLIGATION to out front, even it means getting his ass blistered on occasion. Any public servant will tell you that you accept the good with the bad when you step out. Lead, follow, or get the hell out of the way. The ONLY reason the NTA is not defunct right now is the mentality of the average taxidermist. I saw it POSTED RIGHT HERE JUST A FEW DAYS BACK. It said something to the effect that this NTA Convention was likely to be less attended than others and it would be a great time to win an award. I almost choked when I read it, but it's EXACTLY what happened. I can't tell you the number of shows I attended where I heard competitors tell others that they'd only joined because the convention was closeby and they could stand a better chance of winning. And then someone is going to tell me that taxidermy competitions are about ego. On a rat's ass.

    I'm glad it was successful for both the attendees and the suppliers. The suppliers are forced to play to their audience because THEY understand what the NTA doesn't: If you take care of your customers, they take care of you.

    Next, the bit about Archie. ANY ORGANIZATION WITH INTEGRITY would have taken the step necessary REGARDLESS to show that the organization wouldn't tolerate such crap. When Pennsylvania took unilateral action, that was the key. How can any national organization allow a member, especially a board member to continue to serve when he's been banned from one of the nation's premier shows? Richard Nixon was run out of office for actions less onerous than this and you're going to sidestep the NTA's responsibility? I don't think so.

    Now to the money. A fellow board member and I looked deeply into the NTA finances years ago. One member volunteered his accounting firm to do an audit FREE OF CHARGE and provide the NTA with a "clean set of books" to go forward. When that was refused, we "knew" somehting was wrong but we were smart enough to know there was no evidence there to prove it. We talked with good attorney's and were told the NTA was too small a fish to bother with anyway. We quit. Finally, the burden got so heavy and under the leadership of one John Janelli, the executive staff was fired. His biggest mistake was in not paying them their agreed upon salaries and it cost him. The lawyers for the bonding company we paid for managed to get a secret agreement with the plaintiffs and in spite of what we feel they'd already taken from the NTA, THEY WERE PAID AGAIN TO LEAVE. I guess the members will never know exactly how much that settlement was but I'd bet it was damned sure sizeable enough that it ended up costing us SOMETHING.

    Then the "New NTA" was formed and took all of 3 months to end up down the toilet. Every day makes the New NTA have a helluva resemblance to the old NTA. Instead of dying gracefully and keeping some respect, now I hear we're going to HIRE someone to carney this rolling roadshow so we can carry this Ponzi scheme to other venues looking for ego hungry participants. DAMN what a novel approach.

    Bitter? Not me. There's nothing left to be bitter about. Disgusted? DAMNED RIGHT. I know what a professional organization is supposed to look like and I know the standards they maintain through thick and thin, to keep their image clean. I invested over $750 in membership fees and thousands in donations to a principle I believed in. I still do. But I can damned sure choose who I continue to associate with to insure that nothing I don't like to smell sticks to me when I leave them. This is a rolling clusterflock of the deaf leading the blind trying to sell snakeoil.

    My sincerest apologies to Craig Lewis. I promised him awhile back that I'd just keep my mouth shut and let this train wreck continue. I lied to him and in keeping with my principles, I'm admitting I lied to him about that. I can live with that and I'm sure he won't hold it against me.
  14. *

    * Liberalism IS A MENTAL ILLNESS !

    Won't join, Won't support, Won't compete.
    Nuff said here 8)
  15. Brian Reinertson

    Brian Reinertson Well-Known Member

  16. antlerman

    antlerman NTA Life Member #0118

    George, I totally understand, and in case you are unaware.....I agree with you. However, there is not one damn thing I, you, or anybody else can do about the decisions and actions taken by those in charge of these situations. I did however see some good honest people doing the best they could with the skill sets they have. I don't think any of them claim to know all the answers, and understand that they have some shortcomings in some of there skill sets, and seem open to help when it is help and not fault finding. As I said in an earlier post, I could fault find until my fingers bled, but that isn't helping squat. We know things should have been managed differently, but are you going to listen to someone who is beating you over the head everyday? No. Your going to tell them to **** off. They will bull up and close you out. I will admit that when I walked into that board room that I could hear the butt cheeks tighten as they saw TROUBLE walking into the room. It was pretty obvious that they didn't know if I was there to fight or even kill someone. BUT, I was there on a mission. A fact finding mission. I wanted the truth and not just some gibberish to quench my blood thirst. Once they come to realize that, we all started to loosen up a bit, and ears and minds began to open. Like I said, we built a bridge based upon trust and understanding. They now know that I was only after an honest answer. And do I feel that I got it? Yes I do. And I reported it as such, yet you still doubt my assessment? That's ok if that's the position you choose. But you got the most honest report anyone could have given. Like it or not. Except it or not, I know now where I stand, and that is what is important to me. If my report doesn't convince you, then you need to find out for yourself. That's all I can offer you is my honest assessment. We can question the decisions, fair enough. We can disagree with some of those decisions. I do. What can anyone do after the horse is out of the barn? A bit too late to close the door. But what I do know is this board is ready and willing to hand over the reins. They will run an honest election I do believe. When was the last time you saw one of those?? Maybe the next might possibly be the first. You keep asking about the funds. I don't know the exact numbers, but I can tell that not much has been extracted beyond what was last reported. There is 70K in the Morgan Stanley accounts. The TERF is around 10K if I remember right, and the GF is also in pretty good shape as well. So what did the Crain's get? I was told not much. An amount that we all can live with. That's all I know.

    Additionally, I'm not here to only defend. I'm here to pass on some rational about what this board is about. There are some concerns that I will take up with Mitch, and I think now he will listen to me. To me, thats progress. And he has committed himself in the open membership meeting to maintain a presence here on taxinet. I point blank asked him in front of a hundred people, and they all heard his answer. So they are my witnesses to that statement. I will expect it, and will be very upset if he doesn't stay true to his word this time.

    About the judging and the opportunity to snag a National Title. BULLSPIT. I shadowed YOX thru out his judging process. And if you know Yox, his judging is on the straight and narrow. Nobody was given anything. They earned it, plain and simple. There was a group of whitetails that made it very difficult because they were only within a fraction of each other. VERY close competition. And IMO, Yox did one hell of a job of being fair. There was no"give me's" given. Now I can't say anything about the others. I know some of the fish guys aren't too happy, but I think most everyone else feels that they got a fair assessment.

    I agree that there needs to be some new people on that board. They know that as well. They had to work with what and whom they were given. So I will make this plea to YOU George. They do need someone with your skill sets and I think most would welcome that wisdom, experience, and integrity. So instead of bitching about it, lets go help them. The NTA needs you, so answer the damn call.
  17. antlerman

    antlerman NTA Life Member #0118

    By the way, at Saturday night's convention, SCI gave the NTA a check for 3000.00 and vowed their continued support. Just thought some may like to know that.
  18. James Parrish

    James Parrish Tundra Swan...Its What's For Dinner!

    George, I couldn't have said it better myself.
  19. michael p.

    michael p. Getting better with age :)

    Yes Tim, BUT that $3,000 SCI gives goes to cover their compensated rooms and banquet tickets (Weds - Sat) Those are given to the two SCI reps for the SCI master measurer seminar that the NTA are invoiced for. NTA members pay $100.00 each to attend the 2 day measuring course. The SCI keeps that money. The NTA collects that for them.

    How much did SCI give??? Remember, y'all are in charge of true 'accounting this year'. You DID not make $3,000 from SCI, even though, any net from that will be very nice towards the organization..... transparency people..... come on Taxidermist's..... just because you get $300 for a deer head, you do not get $300 for a deer head..... sometimes there are 'expenses' attached, even though the NTA customer may not understand that.

    Never the less, it is a win-win for both NTA & SCI..... just tell the member, they DO NOT gain $3,000 net from SCI (SMDH)
  20. antlerman

    antlerman NTA Life Member #0118

    I did not know all of that, but makes sense. Thanks. I now understand how that works. But there wasn't that many people in their class, so there had to be quite a bit that was from the SCI. Like you said, it obviously is a win/win.