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Discussion in 'Fish Taxidermy' started by chromepursuit, Oct 7, 2014.

  1. 1fish2fish

    1fish2fish Well-Known Member

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    - Replica body with real head

    - Replica head and body with real fins

    - Real body, replica head and fins

    - Replica with a strIp of preserved fish skin glued to the backside

    And it goes on and on......

    It is perhaps important to know what is being defined so it can be determined how it is defined.

    Is a fish replica not a mounted fish?
    Is providing skin the purpose of taxidermy?

    Is whole animal replication from a live specimen an evolution of taxidermy or an evolution from taxidermy?
     
  2. Harum

    Harum Active Member

    Tim,

    I can appreciate your thoughts and opinions on this topic, but if your point is to go by the definition as written, I didn’t see where it was stated that the skin is required to be part of the final product.
    Again, I taxi the heck out of the dermy when I create a reproduction ;)

    Doug, too late, you already agreed :D

    Dang Scott, you’ve done made sense… now what are we going to do?
    Evolution from taxidermy, hmm. The defined taxidermist might want to be careful with that one. They just might find artist selling replicas to fishermen as well as non fishermen leaving them virtually out of the picture. Probably take a while tough considering most people would obviously contact a taxidermist for that.

    -Pete
     

  3. Kerby Ross

    Kerby Ross KSU - Class of '83; U.S. Army - Infantry (83-92)

    I can see .............

    I can see in the future that people will be able to reproduce a fish from one of the copying machines and then dip into one of those vats that they do skull dipping in and pull out a fish with an exact finish pattern and color on an exact reproduction.

    That will happen sooner than one thinks.

    Seriously ......

    :)

    Kerby...
     
  4. Frank E. Kotula

    Frank E. Kotula master, judge, instructor

    LOL Doug the main reason I brought that up was when our state had a permit to do taxidermy and we had to take and pass a test the PCG let reproduction be part of the test. I took them to battle and fought to have then take it off cause it was not taxidermy ( taxing skin). I through it up to them about the ceramics cause if a person who wanted to do just fish needed a permit so it was said then all those who did any kind of fake fish ( clay plastic etc ) should need a permit. Well it was then dropped by PCG and to do fish taxidermy in the state it had to be a skin mount.
    This is how fish taxidermy was defined in PA.
     
  5. Timjo

    Timjo Active Member

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    Way to go Frank for taking them to battle and fighting for what is right. I'm sure you saved a few people from paying another permit fee.
     
  6. Perca

    Perca Well-Known Member

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    And to answer your question...NO! . A replica is not a mounted fish. Replicas were not mounted so they are NOT mounts. Nor are they fish. They are pieces of fiberglass made to look just like fish. "Faux" fish seems very appropriate....eh?
     
  7. dougp

    dougp Active Member

    Scott's quotes.....It is perhaps important to know what is being defined so it can be determined how it is defined.

    Scott, we have been discussing the definition of taxidermy. Taxidermy is already clearly defined. It is you and others that don't accept that definition.

    Is a fish replica not a mounted fish?

    No, a replica is NOT a mounted fish. It is a MODEL of a fish.

    Is providing skin the purpose of taxidermy?

    Using the skin in the mount is the essence of the term "taxidermy".

    Is whole animal replication from a live specimen an evolution of taxidermy or an evolution from taxidermy?


    That is a very ambiguous question. One could take the position that taxidermy IS actually "whole animal replication from a [once] live specimen". If you're referring to the replication being done using only

    artificial materials then it becomes a process which has many different definitions, such as making fish models [as termed by the Field Museum], sculpture using various materials [clay, wood, stone, etc. oh, and yes, even ceramics! lol!]

    These are not necessarily evolved "of" or "from" taxidermy. They are a method developed to "replicate" from the original without the need to "move the skin from carcass to mannikin".

    Perca.......glad we agree! BTW.....I like your emoticons.... ;) ;D ;D ;D!!
     
  8. dougp

    dougp Active Member

    Kerby....I agree with that. But I also think that there will still be folks looking to have their fish "mounted" by a taxidermist using the original skin...or at least most of it! ;)

    That is IF there are any "taxidermists" still around capable of actually mounting a fish!! ;D
     
  9. dougp

    dougp Active Member

    Frank, I agree with Tim. Good for you!! Not only as Tim said "I'm sure you saved a few people from paying another permit fee" but you also helped the PCG introduce a clear definition of what it considers "taxidermy" to consist of.

    GREAT JOB!!
     
  10. 1fish2fish

    1fish2fish Well-Known Member

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    And the answer is....incorrect.

    I admit, I did look for the definition of 'persaflage' when I read your previous post. I couldn't immediately find it, but figured it out in context. Have you looked up the definition of 'mounted' and/or 'mounts?' If you want my interest in this topic to end, as you suggest, I encourage less emphasis on persiflage ;)

    Another hint, "skin mounts" are also not fish, so faux fish (or fish replica, eh) seems equally appropriate.
     
  11. Perca

    Perca Well-Known Member

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    If my persiflage (My bad for misspelling.) regarding your absurd list of 4 means that "your interest in this topic" will continue, so be it. Your apparent obsession with having the last word and being "right" appears to have reached the point of desperation. You think a replica is a mounted fish and a skin mount is not a fish.
     
  12. UFD

    UFD New Member

    Just for shatz and giggles, let’s take a look at what some who are considered ambassadors to our world of taxidermy have written on the subject:

    http://www.taxidermy.net/information/whatis.html

    Furthermore;

    http://www.taxidermy.net/information/fish1.html

    Since we're all into definitions, I'd like to propose this one for a few taxinet members:

    zealot: a person who is fanatical and uncompromising in pursuit of their religious, political, or other ideals.

    LOL, derp, suck my persiflage. ;D
     
  13. Timjo

    Timjo Active Member

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    Someone please find me a "Beating Dead Horse" icon!
     
  14. Timjo

    Timjo Active Member

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    One that moves. Thanks
     
  15. Harum

    Harum Active Member

    Try Perca. Usually that is all he uses although I’m starting to understand why.

    However, why the desire for a dead horse emote? This topic is far from over.
    For example: You still have not addressed the fact that I taxi the heck out of the dermy when I make a reproduction (that darn definition thing again). Actually no one else has either. Well, Scott did but he got it.
    So what do you say? How could that not be considered taxidermy? By the Latin term, that you all appear to hold so fondly, it is exactly that
     
  16. Perca

    Perca Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG] You're welcome.
     
  17. 1fish2fish

    1fish2fish Well-Known Member

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    An attributive verb is a verb that modifies (expresses an attribute of) a noun in the manner of an attributive adjective, rather than express an independent idea as a predicate.

    Thanks for playing.
     
  18. Timjo

    Timjo Active Member

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    Thanks again Perca, It is now officially over for me.

    I'm thinking 1-2 fish is playing with you all or is just really confused.

    Harum, you seem to correct yourself with most of your statements so, you will eventually figure it out. :-\

    Peace out,
    Tim
     
  19. dougp

    dougp Active Member

    UFD...Dave, I'm a little surprised you would use the "zealot" word in this discussion. Zealot tends to have a negative conotation and I don't see any negativity in attempting to maintain the integrity of a definition of a word or words here. I don't think that term applies by the very definition you have given.... zealot: a person who is fanatical and uncompromising in pursuit of their religious, political, or other ideals. Really???? ::) Although I admit to using that term in some of my discussions on the "muskie board forums" when dicussing the "zealotry" of the C&R fanatics. LOL!!

    Pete, I'll address your point although it should be self explanatory why it is not correct. IF your manipulation of the body of the fish, which conveniently has the skin attached, ;) and replication of that body by making an impression and producing that impression in an artificial material it is no different in practice than what Frank Kutola mentioned about producing a ceramic fish. I would also submit that a photographer does essentially the same thing, as does the practice of gyotaku. Pete, sadly, your point really has no merit in attempting to redefine the term "taxidermy".

    The problem we have here...."is a failure to communicate", to take a quote from a famous movie. 8)

    There is a reluctance to accept the premise of the definition of "taxidermy" as it has been accepted through the ages.

    Regardless of the wordsmithing going on.... taxidermy in latin IMHO, was and IS meant to be the movement [taxi] of a skin [dermy] by ITSELF without support of the carcass onto an artificial body [manikin] and manipulated and adjusted to resemble, as best as possible, the original critter.

    Obviously some of us don't agree with that premise.



    Timjo may be taking the smartest and best approach here......
     
  20. AnglingArtisan

    AnglingArtisan Well-Known Member

    UFD! UFD! UFD!
     

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